some, and deferring the decision upon the rest of their claims; or whether or not some collateral means of meeting the wishes of the petitioners might not be eligible. against its repetition.-Your petitioners beg |tion of considerable importance, which, toleave to state to your hon. house, that a civil gether with the other motions noticed oni suit against lord Melville and Mr. Trotter, several interesting subjects, would, perhaps, unaccompanied by criminal prosecution, fatigue gentlemen so much as to render it would be infinitely short of the public hopes, inconvenient to have his motion brought because it is so of public justice. It is not forward on Friday. He thought this was a the refunding of money that, of itself, is of fit time to state for the information of genreal consequence to the nation; it is the in- tlemen, the substance, if not the precise fliction of an exemplary vengeance upon words, of the motion which he should subproved and powerful delinquents. It is the mit to the house on the subject. His momanifestation to the whole world that high tion would be, that the house should resolve criminals are not above the reach of punish- into a committee of the whole house, to ment; and that the corrupt or wanton vio- consider of all the matters contained in the lators of law shall feel the strength of its petition, and whether it would be expedient arm.-Above all things we intreat your hon. that all, or any of the prayers it contained, house not to permit the public feeling to be should be complied with, or whether a midsported with; and in the formation of in-dle course should be adopted for granting quiries similar to the naval commission, that you will take care that the power constituted be equal to its professed objects; both as relating to the vigor of the authority, and to the integrity of those who are to put it in Dr. Duigenan declared himself hostile to execution; for we submit to your hon. the prayer of the petition, and should, there house whether, if any thing can be worse fore, oppose the motion of the hon. gent. than a deep-rooted, wide-spreading system [COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.-The Chanof abuse and peculation in the management cellor of the Exchequer moved the order of of public money, it would not be the insti- the day for going into a committee of suptution of a system of revision, in its nature a ply; and on his motion, also, the extraor burlesque upon investigation, and in its re-dinaries of the army, the expences of the sult a mockery of justice.-To all these volunteers in Great Britain and Ireland, and points we beg the best attention of your hon. house. We beseech you to pursue with effect what you began with so much honour. We intreat you not to relax in your efforts till you have brought lord Melville to condign punishment, and given to all who shall be found to have committed similar crimes, a signal demonstration, that, in the representatives of the people, instead of abettors of their iniquities, they will find only the faithful guardians of the nation, and the zealous vindicators of the laws."-Ordered to lie on the table. the deficiency of the consolidated fund, were Extraordinary services of the army for the present year lunteers in Great Britain and £668,803 15 3 3,000,000 0 0 3,049,488 15 3 1,600,000 00 [ROMAN CATHOLIC PETITION.]-Mr. For observed, that as the day which he had fixed for submitting a motion to the house on the subject of the petition of the Catho- Mr. Johnstone said, he did not rise to ob lic body of Ireland was so near, he deemed ject to this resolution; but, as emigrants it proper to take this opportunity of stating were included in this sum, he submitted it the reasons on which he proposed to defer to the committee, whether it would not be that motion from the 10th to Monday the better that the money voted for emigrants 13th inst. One reason was, that many gen- should be a distinct vote for that purpose, tlemen interested in the discussion were instead of being brought into the army exnow in Ireland, and could not attend on traordinaries? There was another circumFriday. This was a sufficient reason, but it stance which struck him, and that was, he was not the principal one. Another was, observed, an article of charge of somewhat the importance of the business which was to about 5001. for the expences of creating sir occupy the attention of the house next week. Brooke Watson a baronet. He thought, if His hon. friend (Mr. Whitbread) had a mo-honours were heaped on a man in the situ ation of the hon. baronet, it was rather ex- | restored, every thing would be much cheaptraordinary that the public should be asked er, and the country would derive innume to pay for them. rable benefits from it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that as the baronetage was given that gentleman for his services in the army, it was therefore brought into the army extraordinaries, it being always usual, when that honour was conferred for services to pay the expences. As to the emigrants, this was a charge for such emigrants only as have served in our armies, and are paid abroad in order to save the expence of coming to this country. This was absolutely necessary, when foreigners, who had served us, had no other means of gaining a livelihood in this country, and the army extraordinaries were the most convenient head of service under which they could be classed.-The resolutions were then read, and severally agreed to. [IRISH SILVER TOKENS BILL.]-On the question for going into a committee on the Irish Silver Tokens bill; Mr. Magens requested the attention of the house while he made a few observations on this bill, which, he thought, would be as properly made in this as in any other stage of it. He observed, that in a conversation which passed in that house, some short time since, it appeared that the rate of exchange being. so much against Ireland was in consequence of the very large quantity of paper that was in circulation in that part of the empire. These tokens, as they were called, were, in his opinion, very little, if at all, better than paper; and as they would be subject to great depreciation, he saw very little benefit to be derived from this measure. He thought the only way to serve Ireland effectually would be to restore a real silver coinage directly under the royal authority, and thereby to assimilate the coinages of the two countries as nearly as possible. For these reasons he could not approve the bill. Mr. Princep said, he thought some limitation should be put to these tokens, and hoped a standard coinage would soon take place. Mr. Rose said, the silver tokens were tokens above the value of the price of dollars, and therefore he thought there was no fear of the apprehensions entertained by the hon. gent. who spoke last but one. It had been for a long time in contemplation to make a standard coinage, but there were certain obstacles to it which at present could not be removed. Mr. Magens said, if the old standard were Sir J. Newport said it was much to be wished that the old standard was restored, but that would require some considerable time; and, as a large quantity of paper had been lately taken out of circulation, it be came absolutely necessary something of this kind should be adopted. With respect to the assimilation of the coinage of the two countries, it was a subject that required great consideration, and therefore necessary this bill should pass as speedily as possible. Mr. Lee said the hon. member who made the objection to this bill, most certainly was not acquainted with the situation of Ireland, or he would not argue as he had done. Silver notes, which were the only circulation for making payment of small sums, were now drawn out of circulation, and it was necessary something should be substituted in their stead, as there is now no circulating medium for small payments. He was, however, one of those who did not think the quantity of paper that had been in circulation was injurious to Ireland; the fact had never been proved, and till it was so, he should differ from those who held that opinion. Mr. Foster said very little remained for him to say on the subject. There was at present great distress in Ireland for want of small silver change, and as it is only to continue so long as the restriction of the bank from paying in specie continues, the hon. gent, who made this objection, need have no great apprehension. It will be extremely convenient to the people of Ireland, and he hoped therefore the bill would have the probation of the house. ap Mr. Johnstone said he doubted whether these pieces of silver would continue long in circulation, as, at 5s. 5d. each, people would find an advantage of eight and a half per cent. and would send them to this country to make their payments, and thereby save so much in the rate of exchange. Mr. Foster said, these tokens are to issue at 5s. 5d. but will be ten per cent. under the value of Spanish dollars, and if you add eight and quarter, the difference of exchange, it would be nearly 19 per cent. and when exchange is very high, it would be nearly 25 per cent.; when to these are added the inconvenience of carriage, and the wearing of the silver by friction, there would be thought very little danger of their being. sent to this country. Mr. l'ansittart said a few words in favour of the bill, and the house went into the committee, in which the clauses were read and agreed to.-Adjourned. HOUSE OF LORDS. to express our sense of the very obliging manner in which you have been pleased to convey the resolution of the house. We have the honour to be, sir, your most obedient, humble servants, Charles Morice Police, Ewan Law, John Ford, Henry Nicholls, Wm. Mackworth Praed."-On the motion of Dr. Duigenan, the Irish First Monday, May 6. [MINUTES.-The bishop of Oxford presented a petition from the freeholders of Ox-Fruits Bill was read a second time, and orfordshire, praying that the restraints upon the dered to be committed on Wednesday.catholics might not be repealed, which was Mr. Calcraft presented the Declaration of ordered to lie on the table.-Lord Mulgrave sir Francis Burdett, which was read by the reminded their lordships that they stood clerk. It contained a statement of the summoned for to-morrow upon a notice progress of the poll at the late Middlesex which he gave before the recess, relative to election, and concluded with intimating the one of their standing orders, that, which hon. baronet's intention not to defend his enabled any peer to move the house into a seat. [A copy of the declaration will be committee whenever he desired it. The found in p. 211 of this volume, where it more he had considered that order, the was inadvertently inserted.] That clause of more he was convinced it ought not to re-the act of parliament was then read, in main upon the books of the house; and he pursuance to the provisions of which the should therefore, to-morrow, move to ex-declaration was formed. After a few words punge it.-Lord Mulgrave said that a noble from the secretary at war and Mr. H. friend of his, who had undertaken to bring forward a clause to be added to the University Advowson bill, had not yet been able to complete it; and he, therefore, wished that the further consideration of the 'bill might be postponed till Wednesday. After a short conversation between the bishop of Oxford, the bishop of St. Asaph, the lord chancellor, and lord Mulgrave, the order for the committee sitting this day was discharged, and fixed for Wednesday.-Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Thornton, stating their disapprobation of a great deal of irrelevant matter in the declaration, the 7th of June was the day fixed for acting upon it. [DISMISSAL OF LORD MELVILLE.]Mr. Whitbread rose, and observed, that whatever motives might, in the course of the business he had undertaken, have been imputed to him by the opposers of the mea. sure, he presumed there were none who would suppose he had not, during the whole course of the proceeding, been impressed with feelings of the greatest anxiety. He Monday, May 6. confessed that the feelings of anxiety he [MINUTES.]-The Speaker acquainted had felt, in different stages of the discussions the house, that he had received from the that had taken place, were not to be comCommissioners of Naval Enquiry, the fol-pared with those which he now experienced. lowing letter, in return to the thanks of this He had now come to a point, and standing house of Thursday last." Office of Naval on which he trembled, not from any doubt Enquiry, Great George Street, 4th May 1805. of the propriety of the measure he should -Sir, We have had the honour to receive propose, but from his apprehensions as to your letter of the 3d of this month, trans- the course the house of commons would mitting to us a copy of the resolution of adopt. There were two paths open before the house of commons of the 2d instant. them. The one, as it appeared to him, It is most gratifying to us to learn, that our led by the ways of justice to the immortal conduct as Commissioners of Naval Enquiry honour and renown of the house of com has been considered by the house as de-mons; the other, if they were led by misserving a vote of their approbation; a tes- taken clemency to pursue it, led to the distimony which is justly esteemed one of the repute of the house of commons, and highest honours that can be conferred on eventually to the detriment of the public persons employed in the service of the interest. If it had been immediately pro public we receive this mark of distinction with the greatest respect and thankfulness; and we request that you will have the goodness to communicate to the house these our sentiments.We also beg leave posed, in consequence of the resolutions which he had the honour to submit on the 8th of April, that an address should have been presented to his majesty, praying that lord Melville might be dismissed from all the places held by him under the crown, [ communication to make, had not only said and from the royal presence and councils, for ever The Chancellor of the Exchequer interrupted the hon. gent. for the purpose of speaking to order. He really had understood that the hon. gent. had given notice of his intention to move to take into consideration his majesty's answer, and he conceived that he would have begun his observations with reference to that object. He had a communication to make to the house, which he thought would anticipate what the hon. gent. had to say; he therefore wished to put it to his candour, whether he would afford him an opportunity. on a former day that his name was not struck off the privy council book, but that he saw no reason for advising his majesty to erase it. Under these circumstances, a committee had been appointed to examine further into the matters of the tenth report, as exclusively as could be of the conduct of lord Melville, and a civil prosecution had been ordered against his lordship and Mr. Trotter. A right hon. gent. had proposed, that it should be turned into a criminal prosecution. In this situation the country stoodthat the house had decided that lord Melville, not accidentally or once, but during the course of a long administration, had Mr. Whitbread said, he meant to have been guilty of a breach of his duty, and a concluded by moving, that his majesty's gross violation of the law, and yet no puanswer should be taken into consideration. nishment had been inflicted in consequence Whatever communication the right hon. of this decision. He knew it had been gent. had to make, he thought it would contended that lord Melville had been pucome with more propriety after the motion. nished, and appeals had been made to the He apprehended that if he had made a house whether the punishment had not been motion on the morning after the night the sufficiently severe. He could not easily resolutions were proposed and acquiesced forget the impressive words of a right hon. in, that lord Melville should have been dis- gent, (the master of the rolls) over against missed from his offices and his majesty's him, or his feelings and countenance, comcouncils and presence, that there would not pelling sympathy, when he asked whether have been one dissentient voice. He ap- lord Melville had not been sufficiently puprehended, that if lord Melville had not nished? He wished he could borrow a been a member of the house of peers, but little of that right hon. gent.'s accuracy of merely of the house of commons, and he expression to call upon the house to perhad moved for the dismissal of him as a form what, if it did not perform, he should member of the house of commons, that contend lord Melville would not be puthere would not have been a dissentient nished. If humiliation; if voluntary devoice. In the course of this business he gradation; if the resignation of high emhad shaped his conduct so as to obtain the ployments under the crown, such as lord suffrages and support of every independent Melville thought himself capable of filling; member of parliament; and, in so doing, if the feelings of a man who had held great he conceived he had strictly conformed to official situations for many years; if a brohis duty, and promoted the welfare of the ken and contrite heart, he flammæ, hæ fasces public. The second day after the resolu--if these were to be considered a punishtions passed, he had moved an address to ment, then it was possible lord Melville his majesty, that lord Melville should be might have been punished sufficiently. In removed from his councils and presence, that case, his punishment was as far superior and deprived of all offices held by him to any the house could inflict, as the hand under the crown. It appeared on that oc- that inflicted it was above the power of casion to have been the sense of the house, mortals. It was the duty of the house to that it would be better the resolutions should take care that others were not betrayed into be carried to the foot of the throne; but the same errors, and that men in the situahe was of opinion the consequence of that ation of lord Melville should know, that if measure was not precisely what would have they acted as he had done they would subtaken place if the house had gone up with [ject themselves to degradation. It was also the address. The consequences he had incumbent on the house to take care that hoped for had not taken place. He had equal justice was done to all, and that when resigned his office at the admiralty, but his others were writhing under punishment, name had not been struck out of the list of delinquents of greater magnitude were not the privy council. The right hon. gent. spared. The sensations of shame were who had just intimated that he had some not confined to men in high stations; but a common clerk, detected in a fraudulent act, majesty's privy counsellors, his majesty has felt equally with the highest peer: his feel- acceded to this advice, and that erasure will, ings, too, were accompanied with the loss of on the first day that a council is held, take character, and the loss of character was at place. Having said thus much, I shall, with tended with the loss of bread. With re- the permission of the House, say a few gard to such a person, it was highly proba- words on the circumstances under which I ble, that even if the law was not followed formerly resisted this proposition, and those up, that his wife, children, relatives, and under which I have felt myself bound to dependants, would be reduced to a state of yield to it. The hon. gent. has thought misery. Such an accumulation of distress proper to allude to the discussion which was of itself punishment enough; but justice took place on the day previous to the reand the law must have their victim. He cess; and he says, that on that occasion, therefore, in the name of minor delinquents, I declared that nothing then appeared to in the name of the public, in the name of me which called for my advising his mathe representative body of England, and in jesty to erase the name of lord Melville the name of the former vote of the house, from the list of privy counsellors. I becalled for that which was but bare simple lieve, sir, it is in the recollection of the justice on lord Melville. He deprecated house, that a motion similar to that now the injury the character of the parliament brought forward, was produced by the hon. of 1805 would sustain, if, after the detec- gent. on the day to which he has alluded. tion of lord Melville's guilt, it should ap-On that occasion I did state that the motion pear that parliament had stopped in its pu- appeared to me altogether unnecessary, since nishment, and that he had been suffered to lord Melville had resigned his official situaremain a privy counsellor, particularly after tion, and all prospect or hope of his return the proofs against him had been so com- to office was extinct, as long as the resoluplete; when instead of any denial of the tions of the 8th of April remained in full charge by lord Melville, habemnis confi- force. Unless the house varied their decitentem reum, he had given evidence against sion, that determination was an insuperable himself. He proceeded to infer the odium bar to the noble lord's return to power. it would cast on the ministers of the At that time it did not appear to me to be the day if it should appear they had endea- sense of the house that such a motion should voured to protect such a delinquent. He be persisted in, or that it was at all necessary highly censured that advice which had dic- after the resolutions of censure on a former tated the answer of his majesty to the evening, Many gentlemen who concurred sheriff of London, when they waited upon in those resolutions thought that the wound his majesty with the address of the common which had been inflicted should not be agcouncil. After a few further observations, gravated by any unnecessary circumstances he moved, that his majesty's answer should of severity; that when the justice of the be taken into consideration; observing, public was satisfied, the feelings of the indithat he meant afterwards to move an ad-vidual ought not to be outraged. Even dress to his majesty, praying him to order the name of lord Melville to be erased from the privy council, and to dismiss him from his presence for ever. several gentlemen on the other side of the house did not seem to wish that the motion should be pushed to a division. The motion was accordingly withdrawn, and in the The Chancellor of the Exchequer-Before, room of it the house agreed to lay the resir, the motion is put from the chair, I think solutions before the throne, and to await it necessary for me to make a very few ob- the ultimate decision of his majesty. By servations, which appear to me of such a following this course, it was imagined that nature as will supersede the necessity of the same result would be obtained without agitating the question at greater length, on wounding the feelings of the noble lord, the present occasion. When I interrupted who was already sufficiently afflicted by the the hon. gent. it was for the purpose of general decision of the house. This step then saying, that I had a communication to make being taken, it did not strike me that it was to the house, which might probably render at all expected that it was my duty especially his motion unnecessary; that communica- to advise his majesty to erase the name of tion is, sir, that the object which the hon. lord Melville from the list of his privy coungent. has in view, is already accomplished. sellors. If I had conceived this to be the I have felt it my duty to advise the erasure general wish of the house, I should, unof lord Melville's name from the list of his questionably, have bowed to it, but not |