With regard to the diminution of our expence, it would give me great fatisfaction if it could be brought about with fafety; but I must confefs, however defirable that might be, I do not fee much probability of it at prefent; and indeed, I fhould not pay much attention to the fubject, if I heard any affurances made upon it from the highest authority, for I have observed, that in the years when we had the strongest affurances of retrenchment, our expenditure has moft remarkably increafed.

I feel the difficulty of fucceeding in the hour of victory, in any attempt to moderate defire: I know it is an unwelcome talk to talk to your Lordships of a difpofition to peace; but nevertheless, I cannot help urging it, becaufe I feel it to be my duty to do so. I am well aware that what I fuggeft will make but fmall impreffion on this House, as the noble Mover might well fpeak with confidence of the loyal fpirit and fupport to be expected from their Lordships, who, in the courfe of the war, have afforded too many inftances of manifefting that loyal spirit, and that fupport to the meafures of Minifters, to give room for a doubt of their readinefs to perfevere in the fame line of conduct; I ought to apologize to your Lordihips for taking up your time; but I feel that that fpirit is likely to continue, and I fear the effect of it. I do not think I pafs the bounds of order when I fay we have fresh recruits continually poured into this Houfe to fight for his Majefty's Minifters. His Lordfhip concluded with faying that he agreed with his noble friend, the noble Marquis, that the greatest victories were ufelefs, unless employed to obtain the natural object, and only legitimate end of war-a fafe and honourable peace!

Lord Mulgrave faid, he fhould trouble their Lordships but with a very few words. But he should hold himself unpardonable, if he did not on that day give vent to the proud feelings excited in his breaft by Admiral Nelfons' victory; because, that gallant officer had given the firft proof of his great fkill,. ardent zeal, and noble valour, as well as judicious conduct under the command of a near relation of his, fometime deceased [the late Lord Mulgrave], and which afforded at the time the greatest profpects of his future eminence; but which, flattering as they were, had been moft tranfcendently exceeded by the atchievements of Lord Nelfon at the mouth of the Nile. He had partaken in the general joy which the victory of the Nile had produced-he had felt pleafure as an individual, combined with exultation as an Englifhman; he rejoiced above all in the prospect which that glorious event opened up, of establishing the fafety of Europe. Was this then the moment for propofing, fuing might perhaps be too ftrong a word, peace, and

from

from an enemy too fuch as that with which we had to contend? The noble Lord who had just sat down had referred to the fate of former attempts to prevent France from reducing Europe under her power. But would the noble Lord contend that the relative fituation of the two countries was the fame as at the beginning of the war? In point of glory-in point of finance-in point of the popularity of the two Governments, could any compatifon be made between this country and France? When the conteft firft began, the parties ftarted as great rivals on equal terms. At prefent, however, every thing which could conftitute advantage was in our favour. In fuch a state of things would it be wife and feasonable to truft that moderation which the noble Lord had fo highly extolled in every inftance? Ought we to reft our fafety upon the pacific temper and difpofition of the present rulers of France? The noble Marquis recommended moderation as the courfe of this country, but was it a departure from moderation, or from found policy, at a moment when a fair profpect had arifen of fecuring the independence of Europe upon a fafe footing, and of ultimately obtaining peace upon honourable terms, to throw away the advantages we had acquired, to feek, by crouching at the feet of France, a precarious, hollow and fallacious peace, without endeavouring to turn the glory we had earned into an univerfal benefit to the world?

For his part, inftead of thinking with the two noble Lords, that Minifters had been guilty of omiting any favourable opportunity of bringing the war to an honourable conclufion, he was rather difpofed to think that they had been carried too far by their earnest defire of peace. The enemy had mistaken this eagerness for peace, for inability to maintain the conteft, and their infolence and ambition had inereafed; for this error they had indeed paid dear. Their obftinacy had deluded them, and had led the way for this country to obtain new glory and fuccefs. However individuals might lament the loffes they had fuftained, however the burthens of the State might be regretted, every friend to the country must rejoice in the triumphs it had gained. In that proud eminence which we now occupied, we ought not rafhly and idly to forfeit our fuperiority by renewing negociations which prefented no profpect of a safe and honourable termination. We ought to carry ourselves firmly and vigorously. It was not by extenuating our fucceffes, it was not by magnifying our petty loffes, that peace could be proinoted. Britain now ftood high among the nations of Europe: now he ought to invite them to combate under her

aufpices;

aufpices; to refort to her field for protection; and to affift by cominon efforts to obtain permanent and folid fecurity.

But it feemed, if the noble Lord was right, that we had entirely mistaken the character both of the enemy and of ourfelves. It was not France that was overbearing in her projects, fanguinary in her proceedings, rapacious in her domination, or the that had caufed the evils under which a confiderable part of Europe now laboured! It was England that had betrayed other countries into this fituation! It was England, whofe aggreffions had provoked this war! Really the noble Lord deferved credit for thefe difcoveries, and his ingenuity was to be admired. It was Great Britain that had cheated her allies into the war, and they that had cheated us out of it! In all that had happened France was guiltlefs; the blame all lay with England! Both in the commencement and continuance of the war the fault had lain with us. If, however, any peace could have been obtained, it must have been a peace that would have forfeited our honour, and rifked our very exiftence. It had been faid that jealoufies and rivalihips fubfifted between feveral of the powers that were confederated against France. Would not the greater intereft however overcome the lets, and produce concert in operation? Auftria and Pruflia entertained jealoufies when they formerly confederated. They had indeed feparated, but they had reafon forely to repent their conduct. The events paffing around them now proved that there was no fafety but in union. In a caufe like that in which we were engaged, there was no room for thofe jealoufies which had been alluded to, and for the objects for which other powers were called on to unite, he would now entertain more confidence than in a union between the most amicable powers. No evil could compare with that of giving way to France; whatever other evils they might apprehend, they were not to be compared with that which threatened their existence. Had we not feen thefe jealoufies in fact laid afide? Ruffia and the Ottoman Porte were now cordially co-operating in the fame caufe. This was an example beyond all former fpeculations, because the occafion was beyond all former precedents. When we confidered the different fituations of this country and of France, there was every thing to animate and encourage. On the one fide was glory, the refpect and love of fubjects, the finews of

On the other, there was hatred and infubordination, no finews of war, but the exhaufted refources of rapine and violence. The moderation which the noble Lord had fo highly praised, had now, that they had pillaged a great part of Europe,

carried

carried them as far as Egypt in fearch of new fources of plunder. In a moment like this then it would be the height of pufillanimity to abandon the reft of Europe, and to think only of pursuing felfish meafures, when a profpect had appeared of at last obtaining a fafe and honourable peace, and attaining real and folid fecurity, more fanguine than fometime ago he could have permitted himself to indulge.

Lord Holland rofe to explain. He faid that he was forry to be obliged again to trouble their Lordships; but he could not allow them to remain under the impreffion, which the noble Lord who had juft fat down had endeavoured to give-that he had spoken of the moderation of France lately, and in every inftance, or that he had imputed the state of several countries in Europe, folely to the British cabinet. There was a great difference between contributing to an end, and being the fole caufe of it. The Minifters of this country might have brought about that state of things under which the calamities into which thefe countries had fallen neceffarily followed. He had never faid, that the French had always been moderate in their conduct. It was not in the nature of Frenchmen, or in the character of any government in France, Republican or Monarchical, to be always moderate. This he had contended, however, that there had been periods, in which conciliation on the part of this country would, even in the moment of the highest profperity of France, have led to peace. It was certainly an ungracious task to remind their Lordships, that these opportunities had been loft. He did not mean to enter into the dif cuffion then. He trufted a time would come, when it would be folemnly taken up; when the people of this country would call for it. If he had advanced the propofitions which the noble Lord had afcribed to him, he would have juftly been the fubject of ridicule; but the arguments which the noble Lord ridiculed, were of his own making. He had contended, indeed, that the fums of money fent abroad by this country, had continued the war on the Continent without advantage; that this war had tended to confolidate the power of France. He lamented to say, that the endeavours of the British Cabinet, and the Coalition they put in motion to crufh the French revolution, had placed the French in a fituation which made them. for a time the disturbers of Europe. Experience had proved how inadequate a former coalition had been to overcome the power of France, and he faw no reafon to imagine that the coalition which was about to be renewed, would be more fuccefsful.

Lord Grenville faid, after the very able manner in which the different

different topics before you have been difcuffed by the noble Lords who have fpoken in favour of the Addrefs, nothing fhould now have called me up, to trouble your Lordships, with any additional arguments of mine, but that I was unwilling to allow fome obfervations which dropped from the noble Lord who has juft fat down, to pafs in filence. The noble Lord hes alluded to certain points, on which he hopes that the moment for difcuffion will arrive. Let not the noble Lord imagine, that I will shrink from fuch a difcuffion; let him not think that I will ever be afraid to meet him, or any man, to argue that question. I call upon the noble Lord to identify dates and circumstances, to point out the time when his Majefty's Minifters were backward to embrace and to improve any favourable opportunity which promifed to lead to a fafe and honourable peace. On the contrary, as my noble Friend has well obferved, if Minifters were at all to blame, it was in being too forward to testify their anxiety for peace; facts and documents are on record, and will fhew whether the charge which the noble Lord has urged be well founded: but furely never was there a worfe occation than the prefent for renewing thefe questions. There have been times indeed when France, in the career of her fuccefs, was able to dictate terms to thofe who fued her for peace. There have been moments when it was found neceffary to abandon Europe, becaufe Europe had abandoned itself. There have been moments when it was impoffible to oppofe with vigour and effect the progrefs of France, because it was impoffible to awaken other powers to their true interefts, or rather, to infufe reafon into their councils. There have been Statefinen who argued like the noble Lord and his Friends; who, by a mean and temporifing policy, compromifed their own, dignity, and left France miftrefs of Europe. What has produced that lamentable degraded ftate of feveral of the powers of Europe, but counfels fuch as those which the noble Lord, and thofe with whom he has acted, have uniformly recommended? What has endangered the fubverfion of civilized fociety, and the overthrow of the fyftem of Europe, but paltry, fhameful difunion; but thofe thifting, felfish politics, which have to night been applauded; till at laft, after France has for years been ftrengthened by the refources of plunder, the mifery of Republican domination has driven thofe countries to that refiftance which they were afraid to exert when their firength and their means were entire! It is not with forrow and regret, but with pride and fatisfaction, that I acknowledge that I have ever fubmitted to you the neceffity of different policy. I have valued too much the teftimony of my own confcience, the feelings of

national'