in which they were published, it would be inconfiftent with [COMMONE, the dignity or the justice of the Houfe to make any partial order upon this particular thing. What had already happened might be confidered as a fair warning to others. If the particular paffages complained of in this paper, were to be pointed out, he thought it would be convenient to the Houfe that the fubject should be deferred, and for that purpofe the regular way would be to adjourn this debate to fome future day. But he muft fay again, that when the Houfe did return to the confideration of the bufinefs, they fhould be prepared to take a general view of the fubject, and not to confine itself to any thing that belonged to this particular paper.

Mr. Tierney faid, he thought he faw a general difpofition in the Houfe not to purfue this fubject any further.- [Here was a great cry of no! no! no!} He obferved, that it was not against the paper of the Times that he had any objection, because it was favourable to minifters in its general policy, but it was to the manner in which the converfation of Saturday night last had been reported that his objection was pointed. He thould do the fame thing against any other paper if it contained the fame account. But from the manner in which this matter had been hitherto treated, he very much queftioned whether the Houfe had not better fay at once, they would not proceed any further.

The queftion being put

The Mafter of the Roll's faid, that if this matter was to be confidered he thought that the next day would be too early a day'; fome time ought to be given to confider the whole of the fubject, for fome other papers might fall into the fame predicament. He fhould therefore move that fome future. day be appointed for the difcuffion of this bufinefs. It would be well to poftpone it now, not for ever, but he thought for a week or a fortnight. [Here was fome diffent.] He proceeded, and faid, he did not mean to give the go-by to the matter. The queflion was again put.

Mr. W. Smith obferved, that it was indifferent to him whether this was to come on now or not: but there was another paper in which there was the moft grofs mifrepreprefentation

The Speaker reminded the hon. Member that he could not engraft any charge upon that which was now before the Houfe.

Mr.

Mr. Smith acquiefced, and faid he should postpone what he had to fay upon that subject.

The Mafter of the Rolls faid, he ftill wifhed this matter to be poftponed to a future day, not too near the prefent; not, indeed, to a day over which the Houfe might adjourn, for that, he knew, would be liable to untoward obfervations. He therefore moved, that, inftead of the word "now," the words" on Monday next" be substituted.

The question was then put upon the original motion for reading the paper immediately, and negatived.

Then the queftion was put on the amendment of the Mafter of the Rolls, and carried.

Ordered that the debate be refumed on this fubject on Monday next.

Mr. Long brought up the report of the bill for fufpending the Habeas Corpus A&t.-Read, agreed to, and ordered that the bill be read a third time the next day, if then engrossed.

INCOME BILL.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer then moved the order of the day, for the Houfe to take into confideration the report of the Income Bill.

Sir. W. Pulteney faid, there was no perfon more unwilling than he was to oppofe the general wifh of the House, but there was a great public duty caft upon him, and that duty he must perform. He was ready to repeat what he had faid already-that he was for measures to carry on with effect the conteft in which we are engaged, and not only we, but all Europe are engaged. This he manifefted when the Affeffed Taxes were before the Houfe; but there were in the meafure now before them many points to which he must call their attention.

It appeared to him that the liberty of any country confifted in three points-fecurity of life-fecurity of perfonal freedom-fecurity of property. Thefe were the three great points in which the liberty of a nation confifted. When thefe were all fecure there was no danger whatever of the liberty of a nation. Upon the first, namely the fecurity of life, when he confidered the powers of grand juries, who, in all cafes, had this point before them, except thofe of a military nature; and when he confidered the many excellent regulations that fubfifted with regard to treafon, he was ready to fay there was no complaint to be urged upon the first point of national liberty. With regard to the fecond point, name

ly,

ly, perfonal liberty, certain it was, that while the Habeas Corpus Act remained fufpended, that was in fome measure abridged, but for a temporary and particular purpofe that might be fubmitted to; and when the Hatcas Corpus Act was in full force, the perfonal liberty of the people of this country was as near to perfection perhaps as human invention could devife, and certainly much fuperior in this country to any other on earth. But with regard to the third branch of national Liberty, namely, Security to Property, he queftioned whether any part of it would continue if the bill now before the Houfe palled into a law; and it was upon this ground that he hoped for the attention of the Houfe. There must be a power of levying taxes vefted fome where; in most of the monarchies of Europe they vested in the Monarch, under certain regulations and modifications, which it would be needlefs for him to detail. But in this country, thanks to the exertions of our ancestors, it was fettled, that no money could be levied on the fubject but through the medium of Parliament. It was brought into queflion in the time of Charles the Firft, and it was upon this point that the great Hampden diftinguished himself, and it was upon this point that the civil war afterwards broke out. It was now, beyond all difpute, fettled, that the people of this country cannot be taxed in any way but through the confent of their Reprefentatives in Parliament. Indeed, ever since the revolution taxes had been raised, in no other manner whatever; and it had been the policy of Parliament, ever fince the Revolution, to impofe taxes in fuch a way, at least chiefly in fuch a way, as to afford to each clafs of the community an option whether they would pay them or not; because they were always impofed on confumption; and a man had always fome option whether he would or would not confume an article, at least he had much discretion as to the quanty of confumption. To this general policy in the conduct or the flate in this country fince the Revolution, there were, that he knew of, but two inftances of exception, namely, land tax and the tax upon windows. But it might be said, that a tax upon the abfolute neceffaries of life left no option, because they must be had: but, even in that cafe, the quantity was at the difcretion of the confumer. And, indeed, the direct and immediate articles of life ftill remained untaxed: bread, for inftance, had no tax; milk was not taxed; vegetables were not taxed. But, to return-when Parliament had fan&tioned the fcheme of a minifter, and allowed him to

.

have

have recourfe to means of taxation which gave no option to any budy, it gave fanction to a new fyftem of taxation, and which would give away much of the controuling power over taxes. It might be faid, that it was extremely difficult to find out articles of confumption upon which taxes could be impofed. He was ready to acknowledge the truth of that affertion; but he was very far from withing to abandon the fyftem on that account; and indeed that was, in fome respects, a desirable thing: it was a great check upon executive government; it made them careful and provident of the public money, and made Parliament active in examining what are the beft modes of raifing large fums of money. But, if the principle of this meafure was once established, although the minifter this year only called for one-tenth of the income of the people, next year he may call for twotenths, then for three-tenths, and fo on until the whole was taken away, for the principle being once adopted, would not admit of any limitation whatever; and therefore, upon that ground, he thought this a very improper mode of raifing money for the fervice of the ftate. It had been faid, that this was only following up the principle adopted by the affeffed taxes. The principle of the affeffed taxes had no refemblance to this; for although it might be faid, that the party had no option in the first year, as to what he should pay under the affeffment, yet, in the next year, he had clearly an option. He did not know that many people would have changed their establishments in confequence of the affeffed taxes, but he knew they had the power of fo doing, and that was enough for his prefent argument, for he was only contending for an option to the party. But it was faid, that the affeffed taxes did not produce as much as was expected, and there were many evafions. By the way the produce of the affelfed taxes was not very fmall, for it was admitted they produced upwards of four millions, and the voluntary contributions to cover the affeffed taxes were very confiderable: that all they produced was not enough, he admitted; but as to evasions, he was of opinion, they might have been prevented by proper regulations, and therefore he did not fee why a fyftem of that kind was to be abandoned for fuch a one as this, the one being in a great meafure, and the other not at all, optional. Befides thefe, there were to his mind many very great objections to this, even as now altered; fome of thefe objections touched on the manner of chufing commiffioners, on which, he faid, he thould fay a few words prefently. Suppose a man VOL. I. 1798. Z z gives

gives in a fair statement of his income, would that prevent a difclofure of his affairs? By no means, for it depended not upon the truth or falfehood of the account, but the choice of the commiffion whether the disclosure thould be made or not. There were two temptations to fhun a disclosure of a man's circumstances: first, a man might be tempted to difclofe them, because they were bad; fecondly, there were many objections to a man's difclofing his good circumftances. [Here there was some smiling on the other fide.] Sir William proceeded, and faid, that Gentlemen would perhaps alter the tone of their laughter, if they heard him out. Would it not be a defirable thing to conceal good circumftances in any cafe? Had it never occurred to the Houfe, that it had a bad effect on a man's children, to know very early in life, that they would become poffeffed of very large fortunes on the death of their parents? And was this obfervation never applicable to any other branches of a man's family? Thefe objections appeared to him to have very great force in them. If it was faid, these things were infeparable from the bill, there might then arife two queftions; firft, whether the bill fhould not be abandoned altogether? and if that was determined in the negative, then, whether a better mode than this might not be adopted?

He muft now take fome notice of the fituation into which the commiffioners would be thrown by this bill. It would be difficult for them to refufe to order a schedule to be made upon the fuggeftion of the infpectors, and was it not griev ous to a Gentleman to reflect and to feel, that notwithstanding all his integrity and public fpirit, notwithstanding he had charged himself to the utmoft farthing, with the hope that his affairs might not be expofed, yet they fhould be expofed after all? This would affect the liberty of this country moft materially, because it tended to crush the independent fpirit of the people. This was a measure partaking of the fpirit of abfolute Government; and every body knew the effect of fuch a Government upon the minds of the people who lived under them. Every body knew alfo that there were many inftances of great mildnefs in the exercife of abfolute power, but that was of no avail; there was no consciousness of fecurity felt under fuch a fyftem, and there the fpirit of the people was loft; and indeed it was the prefence and the abfence of that spirit that at once pronounced whether a people were free or in bondage. And although a great number of the people might be faid to be out of the influence of this

measure,