oft heir proceedings, would be allowing the evil itself to encreafe every day, for that very fufferance had of itfelf given occafion for the multiplication of public prints. The practice of publishing debates was an appeal from the reprefentative body, to the people at large out of doors, of all orders, from the highest to the lowest. That newspaper writers were not the beft judges of political affairs he confidered as an undifputed point, to fay nothing of their integrity, and this he conceived alfo to be an important point. That a great many of thefe newspapers were brought into exiftence, and nourished by debates in parliament, was also a clear point, for he knew that when there was a complaint made against a printer in the year 1771, his plea was, that if the House took away from him the power of publishing the debates of that Houfe, they would take away from him his bread. The Houfe, if it allowed thefe debates to be continued, would put in action a poifon which was circulated every twenty-four hours, and fpread its venom down to the extremity of the kingdom. What in the courfe of a very few years was likely to be the effect of fuch a practice; into what hands newfpapers would fall-whether they were likely to be friendly to good morals in future, from the fpecimen we had feen of them of late years, were points into which he would not now inquire. The question was not only whom thefe papers would find out, but also, who would find out these papers, what fort of talents the owners of them were likely to poffefs, or what was a larger queftion, what fort of talents thofe who were owners of papers might employ to write for them, were all of them points well worthy of the fpeculation of the House. Before they allowed newspapers to detail their proceedings, they would do well to confider how those who wrote for newspapers in general had contributed to the overthrow of the different governments of the world, which had been lately overturned, and employed in caufing fo many infurrections as had lately rendered fo much of the habitable globe uneafy. How much of the talents of thofe who wrote for newfpapers had been employed in scattering poifon wherever they could; in bringing virtue into difcredit, by telling the people every where that thofe who profeffed it, and who ought to poffefs it, and who in general did poffefs virtue, had no virtue whatever, by teaching the ignorant and the credulous to defpife every man and every meafure that was refpectable. Such were the efforts, generally fpeaking, of those who wrote for newfpapers. He felt this fo forcibly, that he confeffed he

never faw any man of a low condition with a newspaper in his hand, and who read any of it, without comparing him to a man who was fwallowing poifon under the hope of improving his health. He was not to be led away with any notions that might be entertained by fome perfons concerning the liberty of the prefs. Before any good could be done by the difcuffion of political fubjects in newfpapers, the capacity of the people ought to be enlarged. Thefe were only a few of the objections which he felt to the publication of parliamentary proceedings in Newspapers. It leffened the dignity of the Houfe of Commons; it put the members of it in a fituation in which they ought not to ftand; it fomented difcontents throughout the nation; it multiplied nothing, or very rarely any thing, but that fpecies of information which was deftructive to every good principle, and was hoftile to the character of every public man, or individual in whom public truft was repofed. It produced alfo the inconvenience of which the hon. Gentleman who made this motion, but for reafons he could not well underftand, wifhed to withdraw it, complained, but that was its leaft evil. But, as the House had now the opportunity (which by the way had been well to have occurred fooner), but, as the Houfe had now the opportunity, it ought not to be loft; the character of the Houfe ought to be vindicated, and the advantage of the public ought to be regarded. What courfe the House would take was not for him, but for others, to determine. He had no motion himself to make; he left every thing open to the Houfe. He was defirous of delivering his fentiments on this fubject, because the occafion which offered was not frequent, although the occafion which called for the animadverfion and decifion of the House was much too frequent; and this not because Gentlemen did not know, but because they chufed to abandon their privileges. He had declared his opinion on this practice of newfpaper reporting. The House would judge of what was right to be done. He did not wish to say any thing more, whether the Houfe ought now to come to a decifion of either confirming the old practice of prohibition, or of favouring the relaxation of very modern times. He had now no other duty to difcharge to that House, except returning thanks for the indulgence with which he had been heard upon this occasion.

Mr. Wilberforce obferved, that though the difpofition of the hon. Gentleman oppofite to him to withdraw the motion he had grounded on his complaint, rendered it unneceffary for him to trouble the Houfe with much of what he should other

wife have judged it neceffary to lay before them, yet various circumstances combined in promoting him to trefpafs upon their attention for a few moments, particularly after what had just fallen from his right hon. Friend. (Mr. Windham). Mr. Wilberforce declared he was very folicitous to prevent any poffible mifconftruction of the principles on which he had himfelf acted, in very lately prefling upon the ferious confideration of the Houfe, the grofs and fcandalous mifftatements of their debates and proceedings which had become fo general, and the propriety, and indeed neceflity, of applying, if poffible, fome remedy to that great and growing evil. Thofe Gentlemen who were prefent on that occafion would recollect that he had not intimated the flighest inten tion of complaining to the House of any particular publication, whatever ground he perfonally might have for fuch a complaint: his object was, a general redrefs of a general grieyance. Nor had he expreffed any, the smallest wish, that the House of Commons thould enforce its ftanding order, and prevent altogether the publication of its proceedings and debates. He had even then fuggested, that almost any thing fhould be borne, and any expedient be tried, rather than refort to fuch a remedy: and he felt himself now called upon, by what had been stated by his right hon, Friend (Mr. Windham,) to declare it as his fixed opinion, that (the House referving to itself of courfe a right to fhut its gallery, at its difcretion, when the delicacy of any particular difcuffion might render it expedient), the publication of their debates and proceedings was not injurious, but highly beneficial to the country. He altogether differed from his right hon. Friend who had urged, that it had almost changed, or at least ftrongly tended to change, the nature of our conftitution from reprefentative to democratical, conceiving it to be, in fact, perfectly and ftrictly conftitutional. The people of Great Bri tain indeed devolved on the reprefentative body, for a term of years he duty of watching over their rights and interests; but did it follow that they were not to pay attention to the conduct and language of thofe reprefentatives in the execu tion of the trust repofed? How then should they be qualified, at the end of the term, for judging whether to continue the truft in the fame hands, or transfer it to others? Mr. Wilberforce did not hesitate to declare, that in general thofe perfons who were for ever improperly bufying themfelves in politics were among the leaft ufeful, and leaft worthy, members of the community: but the constituent, no less than the representative, had a duty to discharge, and how should

he

he discharge it well, without the neceffary means of infor mation? But in truth he muft fáy, that experience completely refuted the right hon. Gentleman's affertion; for, notwithstanding all the mifreprefentations which had prevailed, he had the fatisfaction of being able to declare that the happieft confequences had actually followed from the notoriety of their tranfactions and debates, and from the eye of the public having been fixed upon them. So far from their having thereby at all loft their specific character, he believed there never was a time when the reprefentative body, the House of Commons, had poffeffed a higher place in the refpect and affections of the people.

Mr. Wilberforce remarked, that if the hon. Gentleman opposite to him had proceeded with the complaint, it would have been neceffary for himfelf allo to complain of another newspaper by which he had been grofsly calumniated in the account of that very proceeding, being maile by that newfpaper to take to himfelf the imputation the hon. Gentleman had thrown on fome one, without naming the perfon, and not being likewife made to contradict it. However superfluous it might feem to thofe Gentlemen who, having been prefent on the former occasion, knew that there was no ground for this ftatément, yet having remarked that reports and infinuations which were fuffered to pafs unnoticed in that Houfe, from their not being thought of confequence enough to be contradicted, would often pass current throughout the country, and be circulated with ill-natured industry, he thought it due to his own character to declare publicly, that he had no more concern in preparing or inferting, or paying for the ftatement in the Times of which the hou Gentleman had complained, than to the hon. Gentleman himself, or any other perfon prefent. E

Mr. Wilberforce concluded with obferving, that he trusted the difcuffion of that day would not however be wholly with out its ufe: that though he (and he trusted a large majority of the Houfe) was friendly to the publication of their pro ceedings, and though even if this were otherwife, it would be highly unjust in the Houfe without notice to punish perfons for the breach of a ftanding order, which, for fo many years, they had neglected to enforce ; yet it would be undertood that the Houfe of Commons was not wholly regardless of the manner in which their fpeeches and proceedings fhould be reported. That what had now paffed must be confidered as a fort of notice and warning to reporters, not to prefume VOL. I. 1798.

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too far upon the indulgence of the House and the patience of individuals. He trufted there would be confequently fomewhat lefs of wilful mifreprefentation than had hitherto been fuffered to prevail, and he would again declare, that the more publicity was given to whatever was really faid or done in Parliament, the more would that Houfe become the object of esteem and attachment to their conftituents, and the nation at large.

Mr. Secretary Dundas faid that he had long been convinced that the practice of publishing a mutilated and incorrect account of what paffed in parliament, was calculated to affect the honour and the ufefulnefs of the Houfe. He conceived that before the complaint could be withdrawn the hon. Gentleman must move for the leave of the Houfe. It could not be allowed to ftand on the journals that the House had fuffered fuch a complaint to drop without fhewing in what manner it was done. The fubject ought to be confidered not on perfonal grounds, but as fomething deeply connected with the usefulness and the dignity of the Houfe. He must obferve likewise, on the prefent occafion, that there were other attacks calculated to degrade and vilify the House, which ought not to pafs unnoticed. Where other perfons were guilty of libels on the Houfe, they ought to be brought before a jury for the offence. This, however, was not enough. There were cafes in which the members of the Houfe itfelf were the libellers. There were cales in which this House was moft grofsly libelled by its own members; but fuch proceedings fhould not go on. He pledged himself to bring forward the fubject, if no other perfon appeared to vindicate the honour of the Houfe, and if any member was guilty of a libel upon it, he was determined to propofe fome means that fhould put an end to the practice, and punish the offender. He could not help referring to what had been reprefented to have been faid by a certain hon. Gentleman, who had thought proper to defert his duty in parliament, at a club in this town. That Gentleman, who never fhewed his face in the House, had gone to that club, and, if fairly represented, had fid what was a grofs libel on the House. Such practices could not and fhould not any longer go on. There was another cafe too in which the hon. Gentleman who brought forward the complaint, was reprefented to have ufed expreffions at a meeting of fome of his conftituents which were a fcandalous libel on the Houfe. He was reported to have faid, that he never heard of parliament meeting for the dispatch

of