rical foever it may be, yet it would gain force in their minds, and add vigour to their projects, if they faw this country, day after day, weakening that force, which, while it is entire, will remain invulnerable. He was therefore most clealy of opinion, that we fhould increase instead of leffening our efforts.

He then proceeded to take notice of fome of the heads of the eftimates before the committee. The hon. Gentleman oppofite to him had profeffed not to be very well acquainted with the fubject, but yet he had exhibited fome complaints against the largenefs of the expence this year. Upon that fubject it was obfervable that part only of the fupplementary militia was voted. Some of it was only voted for ten, and fome for only eight months, instead of twelve, as they were now proposed to be. This was an excefs upon the estimate of last year it was frue, but it was unavoidable.

There had been fome regiments of guards alfo to be made up for those who had gone to Ireland. Indeed they were not now, what they had been fometimes fuppofed to be, for parade and oftentation. No; they had fhewn themselves worthy of the British name upon the Continent, in Ireland, and at that glorious, although unfortunate expedition, to Oftend.

As to the fubject of an alteration in the fees of offices, he avowed at once that he did not agree with his right hon. friend (Mr. Windham); he thought the late arrangement to have been neceffary, and that they would be ferviceable to the public; as he confidered that diminishing that which is already too great, and adding it to that which is already too fmall, was good and found policy; and that was the spirit of the new arrangement in the office alluded to.

As to the barracks, it fhould be confidered that all the troops, at leaft the greater part of them, were in barracks. The expence attending this fubject had been flated roundly at the fum of 5c0,oool. but nothing was more fallacious than to ftate this fum as an additional public expence on account of barracks, for it contained many provifions for the fubfiftence of the troops; it contained all the expence of their being cantoned, or lodged in public houfes, which expence would have been brought forward in another fhape but for thefe barracks. There was not, therefore, the smallest ground for imputing want of economy to minifters, and he would defire no other limitation to this geconomy than what had

fallen

fallen from the right hon. Gentleman, that we fhould put the country in a powerful and menacing attitude..

Mr. Tierney faid, that nothing he had heard from the Chancellor of the Exchequer had fatisfied his mind. He had heard nothing from that right hon. Gentleman to convince him that even if an augmentation of our forces had not taken place, we fhould not have preferved an attitude sufficiently powerful and impofing for any danger that we had now to apprehend from invafion. However defperate and frantic the enemy may have fhewn themfelves, neither phrenzy nor defpair could enable them to reach the coaft of England without veffels; and when, by the deftruction of their naval power, they were deprived of the only means of annoying us, he could not comprehend why our establishment fhould be continued on as large a fcale as formerly, much lefs why it fhould receive any increafe. He had been told that 17,000 men had been fent to Ireland. But it thould be recollected that they were fent over fo far back as laft fpring; and fince that period, he had the authority of the King's fpeech for ftating, that the occafion which called forth their fervices no longer exifted. The rebellion was entirely crufhed, and thofe hoftile fleets upon whom its abettors depended for affiftance, were captured or deftroyed. The left wing alfo of the army of England was feveral months ago landed on the fhores of Egypt. It could not, therefore, but excite his furprife, that, inftead of attempting a reduction of our present expenfive eftablishment, there fhould have been added fourteen regiments to that of the preceding year. This was a. measure to which it was impoffible for him to affent; and he should conceive that it would be rather difficult to prove to the fatisfaction of that Houfe, the neceffity of fuch an augmentation, if nothing elfe was intended than defence. He faw no reason why we fhould be afraid of the efforts of the French, who are now attacking what was called the liberty. of other nations. But if he could fuppofe that we were capable of being infected with a like phrenzy as the French, and inftead of confining our exertions to measures of defence, were to attack the liberty and independence of other countries, under the pretence of becoming the deliverers of Europe, then, indeed, it might be expected, that, like the French, we alfo fhould have a requifition. He could not, however imagine, that the fupporters of the measure would justify it upon this ground; and he would repeat that every view

that

that could be taken of the relative fituation of this country and France, led rather to a diminution than an increafe of our land forces. In what he had faid refpecting the war-office, he had not the moft diftant intention of imputing any T culpability to the right hon. Gentleman who prefided over it, and who had ftated moft correctly that no part of the exorbitant emoluments fo juftly complained of came into his coffers. He had, indeed no hesitation in admitting, that, when he regarded the nature of the truft committed to him, the duties he had to perform, and the rank which he had to fupport, he was far from being overpaid; and, however zealous an advocate for economy in every department, he was of opinion that the greater part of the public offices of this country were not overpaid. He never thought that any retrenchment fhould be made in that branch of expenditure; and if any faving could be effected, it was too trifling to oc cupy a moment's confideration, or to justify difturbing the comforts of any deferving man. But there were a number of fuperfluous offices which he thould wish to fee abolished, and among which were fome of thofe held by an hon. Genz tleman (Mr. Dundas) oppofite to him. He did not fee the neceflity of that of treasurer of the navy, for which, however, that hon. Gentlemen received 4000l. a year, though he would fcarcely affert that his exerrions in that capacity had contributed to Lord Nelfon's victory. With refpect to the fees of the war-office, it was well known that they were paid on various documents which paffed through it; and it required no great forefight to difcover that in a period of war thefe fees would proceed in an encreafing ratio., The right hon. Secretary fhould therefore have endeavoured much earlier to remedy this growing evil; and in forming his prefent, arrangement, thould have taken into the calculation the enor mous fums which had been already received by the perfons. under him. It was certainly impropet to aflign 100cl a year, in time of peace, to a man who had been fo greatly overpaid during the war. If the perfon he alluded to had a claim on the public for old fervices, he would be among the first to vote him the molt ample compenfation. But he could never give his aflent to fo large a falary on the mere ground that he had been deprived of emoluments which he had already too long enjoyed. In refpect to barracks, he had certainly mifunderstood the fecretary at war. But it was a fubject upon which, he confeffed, his alarm was cafily excited; and he

had

had always been hoftile to the fyftem of erecting barracks in every quarter of the kingdom.

He should make no further obfervations at present, but perhaps might fubmit fomething further upon the report.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, that the hon. Gentleman who fpoke laft had indulged in many obfervations which he could not allow to pafs by unnoticed, and he had also lapfed into fome mistakes which he felt it incumbent upon him to rectify. If the Houfe was to give credit to the hon. Gentleman's affertion, the country has nothing hereafter to dread from the threats of the enemy to invade our coafts, on that head we may difmifs all our apprehenfions and alarm, for without fhips, or any thing like a fleet, fays he, how is it poffible for the enemy to attempt the execution of any threat of that nature? But the fleet and armament, on the fignal and compleat deftruction of which the hon. Gentleman has principally refted his affertion and grounded his argument, are well known by the Houfe not to have been intended or directed against the coafts of these kingdoms, and therefore its glorious overthrow by Admiral Lord Nelfon is no reason for relaxing our exertions or curtailing our establishment, Splendid and important as that great victory must now be felt, and ever muft appear, and beneficial, decifive and extenfive as its effects may prove, yet they do not juftify the executive government of the country in fufpending their activity, or in relinquishing the meafures which it has been their opinion fhould be exerted and purfued for its independence and fecurity. That fecurity which the hon. Gentleman imagines folely to grow out of the immortal triumph atchieved by Lord Nelfon was to a certain extent compleat long before the annihilation of the Toulon fleet; long, indeed, before Lord Duncan's victory off the coaft of Holland-and perhaps even before the memorable and brilliant action fought and gained by Admiral Lord St. Vincent. Should our naval fuperiority authorife us to remit our efforts and to lull our anxiety, we might, as the hon. Gentleman recommends it, limit our expences, and retrench our establishments; for long before the date of thefe tranfcendent naval exploits, we had fhewn ourselves the undifputed fovereign of the feas. But experience had long taught us, that we have to deal with an enemy whofe every motion fhould be watched with jealous vigilance, and whose attempts must be frustrated by energy and precaution. For though the chances are as three to one

in

in our favour, or even in a much larger proportion, we should never be unprepared against the inveterate andreft lefs animofity of the enemy; nor, proud and confident as we may justly feel in the pre-eminence of our naval fituation, fhould we leave our friation by land, where we may alfo be called to fight, lefs guarded, formidable, and fecure. This was the avowed object, and profeiled principle of his right hon friend laft year, and the fame principle is he determined (and wifely determine to act for the enfuing year; and for that object, and on principic hall we continue to act, that we may baffle and infound the wild, daring, and defperate attempts of an enter rifing and prefuming foe. Nor fhould, he would again repet, their complete defeat off the Nile, in the least dipofe encourage us to forget the fpirit that actuates then, or unbend us in the vigilance and vigour with which it ought on our fide to be watched and refifted.

But the hon. Gentleman has thought proper to infinuate an hope, that, in continuing, or, as he feems to imagine in increafing our military establishment, we are not to imitate the example of France, and attempt (as he threw out in a parenthefts), to invade and crush the liberties of other nations.

When the hon. Gentleman expreffed this jealousy and fear, that it might be the object of our military establishment to opprefs the liberties of other countries, he trufted that the allufion was not made to what are called the liberties of France; and that no comparison would be attempted to be made, either in a moral or a political view, between the manner in which we might endeavour to conquer the liberties of France (that is the moft atrocious defpotifm that ever was exercifed, or endured by any nation), and the defign and attempt of France to conquer the liberties of England, or, what their Directorial Government is pleafed to style, the flavery of Egypt. To conquer liberties of that defcription, or rather to wreft from the hand of France that iron fceptre of oppreffion which has proved fo formidable to furrounding nations, and fo fatal and intolerable to thofe who already groan under their yoke, would, he did not hesitate to fay, be the greatest and most glorious act of benevolence; the greatest and most glorious act of kindness, in the performance of which any nation could co-operate for the delivery and independence of another. He trufted, therefore, that no fuch comparison was intended between the defigns and operations of the two countries; for never could he suffer fuch a paralVOL. I. 1798.

N

lel