1735-36. Anno 9. Geo. II. I fhall not now controvert; but I have always obferved, that no foreign Prince would lend us any of his Troops, without our engaging, not only to pay them, but to grant him a Subfidy, perhaps greater than the Pay of thofe Troops, upon their own Footing, would have amounted to; and that even in Cafes where the Prince ftood obliged, perhaps by former Treaties, to affift us with Troops at his own Expence, and often in Cafes where his own Prefervation was more immediately concerned in the Event of the War than ours. 'Tis true, Sir, we are always obliged upon fuch Occafions, to have Recourfe to the Princes of the North, who by Reason of their Poverty plead an Inability to fend us, or to have ready to be fent, the ftipulated Succours, unless we, by a new Contract, agree to pay them a Subfidy; which has fome Shew of Reafon, or at leaft of Neceffity, when they raise any new Troops for our Service; but I never could comprehend either the Reason or the Neceffity for fuch a Pretence, when they make no real Addition to the Land-Army they before kept up, nor put themselves to one Farthing Additional Expence on Account of their Subfidy from us. This I know has fometimes been the Cafe for Years together, during all which Time we have been fo generous as to pay their Subfidy regularly, for enabling them to defray an Expence they never were at: At leaft, in the publick Accounts delivered to this Houfe, thofe Subfidies have been yearly flated as fully and regularly paid, in Purfuance of the Treaties we had before approved of; though indeed, an Accident happened not long ago, which gave Room to think, that all those Subfidies had not been fully and regularly paid to the Princes fo intitled to them. Now, Sir, if we narrowly confider our Circumftances, I believe we shall find that we are as poor, and in as great Difficulties, as the pooreft Prince in the North; and as we have lately fent a very powerful Squadron to the Affiftance of a very rich Prince, I make no Doubt but that our wife and frugal Minifters let that Prince know, before they fent out the Squadron, that with refpect to him we are a Northern Power, and as needy as any Power he could apply to ; and that therefore they have obliged him to pay us a very large Subfidy, for the powerful Squadron we fent to his Affittance. I am very fure our Minifters had much more Reason to infift upon fuch a Subfidy, than the Minifters of any Nor thern Power ever had to infift upon a Subfidy from us; for with refpect to the Breach between Portugal and Spain, it was, in ny Opinion, at leaft, as great a Queftion which of them were acting upon the Offenfive, as it was with refpe&t to 1735-36. to the Breach between Spain and the Emperor; therefore, Anno 9. Geo. II. we were not by any former Treaty obliged to fend him any Affiftance: Then as to the Expence, it is certain we have put ourselves to a very confiderable additional Expence on Account of the Affiftance we have fent to him; and as to the Benefit he has reaped from that Affiftance, it appears plain to me, that the Tranquility he has enjoyed, and does till enjoy, has been, and is ftill owing to nothing but the powerful Squadron we have fent to his Affiftance; which, I am pofitive, is much more than can be faid of any Affistance we have ever got from any of thofe, to whom we have paid fuch large and fuch generous Subfidies: To this I must add, that it cannot be faid that the Preservation of this Nation was immediately concerned in the Event of the War between Portugal and Spain; which has generally been the Cafe with respect to thofe Northern Princes to whom we have hitherto diftributed our Subfidies. From thefe Reasons, I am induc'd, Sir, to think that our Ministers have certainly ftipulated a large Subfidy from Portugal; and I have taken Notice of it upon this Occafion, only to put Gentlemen in Mind to call for an Account of this Subfidy, at a proper Opportunity; and to appropriate it to the maintaining the 15,000 Seamen now to be voted; in order to prevent our being obliged to load the present or the future Generation with additional Taxes, or to lay violent Hands upon that Fund, which ought always to be held facred to the Payment of our publick Debts; by which only we can free our poor Labourers and Manufacturers from thofe Taxes, which at prefent render the Neceffaries of Life fo much dearer in this Country than they are in any other.' Then the Queftion being put on Sir Charles Wager's Motion, the fame was agreed to without Oppofition. Jan. 28. A Motion was made by Mr Pulteney, the ordinary Eftimate of the Navy for the Year 1736, referred to a Select Committee; upon which enfued a Debate, in which Mr Pulteney's Motion was fupported by Plumer, Mr Sandys, Sir John Barnard, and Mr Gibbon, follows: Sir, That Debate on Mr Pul be mate of the Navy Mr as tency's Motion for referring the Eftifor the Year 1736 mittee. to a felect Com-, Mr Walter Plumer. I of Among the many ancient Methods of Proceeding in Parliament, drop'd by the Complaifance of latter Times, think no one more neceffary to be re-affumed, than that appointing Committees to infpect the Estimates that are laid before us, for enforcing the Demands made, by the Crown. It appears from the ancient Journals of this House, that when a Demand of Money is made for anfwering the Expence of any Meafure neceffary for the Honour or Interest of the Nation, an Estimate of that Expence was laid beVOL. IV. fore Mr Sandys. Sir John Barnard. Mr Gibbon. 1735-36. Anno 9. Geo. 11. fore this Houfe, and a Committee appointed to examine that Eftimate, to fee whether every Article was fairly stated. Our Parliaments in those Days were not so complaifant as to take any fuch Eftimate upon the Credit of the Minifters: They thought it incumbent upon them to fee, with their own Eyes, the Neceffity of every Article of the Expence propofed, before they would open their Purfe. This Method of proceeding is, in my Opinion, proper upon all Occafions, but at prefent, with refpect to the Navy, it is become abfolutely neceffary, because the yearly Expence of the Navy now vaftly exceeds what it was in former Times; and there is almost every Year fome new Article brought into that Eftimate which was never before heard of. I do not deny, Sir, but that it may be now neceffary for us to keep up a much larger Fleet, and to keep a much greater Number of Seamen in our Pay than we formerly ufed to do; but the greater our Expence is that Way, the more Room there is for defrauding the Publick; and therefore we ought to be the more careful to prevent loading the Publick with any unneceffary Article of Expence. Thefe Eftimates, 'tis true, are laid yearly upon our Table; but I believe no Gentleman, even of those who are best acquainted with the Affairs of our Navy, will pretend to fay, that he can from a bare Perufal at our Table determine, whether the Articles of Expence mentioned in fuch Eftimates are all neceffary, or that no one of them has been overcharged? And I do not fee how any Gentleman can answer to his Conftitúents the loading of them with an Expence, a great Part of which, for what he knows, may be altogether unneceffary. We ought, Sir, likewise to take Care that fo much Money may be granted as shall be neceffary for our yearly Expence; for by Estimates and Grants of Money which are afterwards found to be deficient, especially with respect to the Navy, we deceive our Conftituents; we do Injuftice to the particular Men employed in the Navy, who are generally obliged to fell their Claims at a Difcount; we enhance the Price of all Materials neceffary for the Support of the Navy; and we difcourage our Seamen from entering into the Service of their Country: This we have the more Reafon to take notice of at prefent, because of the great Debt that has been lately contracted on Account of our Navy; a moft extraordinary Debt, confidering the fhort Time in which it has been contracted, and that in a Time of profound Peace. And the Method, which we were laft Year obliged to take for paying off a Part of it, ought to make us extremely cautious of being again led into the fame Error, by any short Eftimates that may be laid before us; for we may remember, that during the Time we were running ourselves infen fibly into that confiderable Debt, there were Estimates yearly laid before the Parliament, which it was pretended, contained an Estimate of the whole Expence neceffary for the Service of that Year. The Nation may be accidentally drawn into an additional Expence not to be foreseen; but that additional Expence ought always to be laid before the very next Seffion of Parliament, and ought to be provided for within the very next Year. ⚫ Another Confideration, Sir, which ought to make us look the more narrowly into all publick Accounts, is the great Debt the Nation groans under. A Gentleman of an opulent Fortune, may perhaps pafs flightly over his Steward's Accounts; he may even allow his Servants to heap up Expences upon him, and to charge him with new and extraordinary Articles, without inquiring whether or no there was any Neceffity for them; but a Gentleman whofe Eltate is deeply mortgaged, and cannot even fupport the yearly Expence of his Family, without laying Hands upon that Part of his Eftate which ftands appropriated for paying off old Mortgages, ought to inquire ftrictly into the Management of his Stewards, and ought never to pafs any Account, before he is thoroughly convinced of the Neceflity of it. This, Sir, is our mélancholy Cafe at prefent; we cannot provide, even for the current Service of the Year, without laying Hands upon that Revenue, which was long fince appropriated to the Payment of old Debts; and therefore we bught not to approve of any Eftimate, till we are thoroughly convinced of the Neceffity of every Article; and this can be done only by referring them to Select Committees.. Whether any unneceffary Articles of Expence have been ately brought upon the Nation, is what I fhall not at preent pretend to determine; but that feveral new and extraordinary Articles have been of late Years brought into alnoft every Estimate ufually laid before us, is what must be nown to moft Gentlemen in this Houfe; and no one of hem has ever yet been inquired into, in that Manner which neceffary upon fuch Occafions. It is likewife well known, hat we have had of late Years feveral new Offices erected, ew Posts established, and new Salaries granted, all of which re a Charge upon the publick Revenue; and whatever may e the Cafe as to thefe new Offices, I believe, upon a proper nquiry, it would be found that we have many old Offices r Officers that might be spared, and many Salaries which night be altogether fuppreffed or very much diminished. f the Nation were engaged in War, or if we were in any Danger of being engaged in War, it would not perhaps be roper to enter upon fuch Inquiries; but by the great Pronotion lately made of General Officers, I am convinced the Peace 1735-36. Anno 9. Geo. 11. Peace of Europe is now fully re-established; for I am per-. fuaded his Majefty would not have made fo many brave Gentlemen ufelefs as Colonels, by promoting them to be Generals, if there had been the leaft Ground to fufpect that we should foon be engaged in War: 'Tis true, few of those Gentlemen lately promoted will, I believe, be brought upon the Establishment as Generals, and therefore it is to be hoped that Promotion will not increase the Publick Expence; but we are at prefent in a State of perfect Tranquility, therefore it is the most proper Time for us to inquire into all our publick Accounts; and as our Navy ought always to be the first Concern of the Parliaments of Great Britain, I fhall beg Leave, Sir, to move, That a felect Committee be appointed to inquire into the Eftimate of the Navy for the Current Year.' Sir R. Walpole. To this it was anfwer'd by Sir Robert Walpole, Mr Horatio Walpole, Mr Winnington, Sir William Yonge, and Sir Charles Wager, as follows: Sir, I fhall not take up your Time with a Difpute about the ancient Ufage in Parliament, but if there ever was any fuch Method as that mentioned by the honourable Gentleman who has made you this Motion, it is certain that it has not been followed for many Years; and as no Custom once eftablished, is ever laid afide, without fome good Reasons for fo doing, we are to prefume that if there ever was any fuch Method established, it was found to be inconvenient or unneceffary, otherwise it had never been discontinued for fo many Years. This, of itself is a fufficient Reafon for our not re-affuming that Cuftom, unless it could be fhewn that the Publick has fuffered by its being laid afide; but there is this farther Reason, that our reviving fuch a Custom on the prefent Occafion, would make People fufpect that fome very great Frauds have been lately committed in the Management of the publick Treasure; and I cannot think it confiftent with that Duty we owe to his Majefty, to give the People any fuch Alarm, when there is not the least Foundation for fuch Sufpicion. Perhaps there may have been fome new Articles lately brought into fome of our Eftimates, but I do not remember any that are very confiderable; and there never was one new Article brought in, but what appeared, at first View, to be abfolutely neceflary for the publick Service. The honourable Gentleman feems to think it impoffible to deter mine, from a bare Perufal of the Eftimates at our Table, that the Articles of Expence mentioned in them are all neceffary, and that no one Article has been overcharged; but I cannot be of his Opinion; for I never could obferve any Mystery |