under their View only the future Produce of thofe Duties, which they appropriated to the raifing of that Revenue : They confidered that 800,000l. a Year was the least that was neceffary for fupporting his Majesty's Houfhold and Family, and the Honour and Dignity of the Crown of Great Britain; and therefore, if the future Produce of those Duties, which were then appropriated towards raifing that Sum yearly, fhould fall fhort, they obliged themselves to make it good: The yearly Sum of 800,000l. I fay, they reckoned the leaft that was neceffary for the Purposes intended; but then they confidered, that even a large Sum might be beneficially applied to the fame Purposes, and therefore, in Cafe the future Produce of those Duties fhould amount to more than 800,000 1. a Year, thofe Surpluffes by them were likewise appropriated to the Civil Lift, and his Majefty has as good a Right to thofe Surpluffes, if any has arifen, or fhould arife, as he has to any Part of the 800,000l. a Year.

From this Confideration, Sir, every Gentleman must fee, that, if by any new Regulation we diminish the Produce of any of thofe Duties appropriated to the Civil Lift, we are in Justice to his Majelly obliged to make good the Lofs which the Civil Lift may thereby fuftain; for I hope the Parliament of Great Britain will never act so childish a Part as to make a Grant in one Year, and to take back that Grant, or any Part of that Grant in the next: We may be obliged, for the Sake of the publick Good, to make fome Alterations in the Grants we have made, or may hereafter make; but it is to be hoped we never fhall make any fuch Alterations without the Confent of all thofe interefted therein, or without making good the Lofs they may fuftain. The Grant of the Civil Lift, as it now ftands established, I must look upon in the fame Way as if one Gentleman, for Favour and Affection, or fome other Confideration, should make a Grant or a Present to another of a Ticket in the prefent Lottery with this Condition, that if it came up a Blank, he would give him 51. in Lieu thereof, but if it came up a large Prize, the Whole fhould belong to the Grantee. Now if, after such a Grant made in the most folemn Manner, the Ticket fhould come up a large Prize, I fhould think the Granter both very childish and very unjust, if he infifted upon having any Share in that Prize, or upon taking any Part of it from the Grantee, without giving him an adequate Confideration. We are not now to inquire whether the Duties granted to the Civil Lift produce more than 800,000l. a Year, or not; but if they do really produce more, that Surplus is a Sort of Prize we have already granted to his Majesty, and we neither can nor ought to take any Part of that Surplus from him, or VOL. IV.

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1736.

Anno g. Geo. II. to make any Alteration by which that Surplus may be diminished, without making good the Lofs in fome other Way; and that Lofs ought certainly to be computed from the Produce of the Grant fince it was made, for before the Grant was made, there could be no fuch Produce.

Having now, Sir, fhewn that it would be a moft prepofterous Method of Computation, to compute the Lofs his Majefty may fuftain, from a Medium of the Produce of any Number of Years before his Acceffion, I think I need not take any Notice of those Alterations which happened in the Duties upon Spirituous Liquors, or any other Duties, before that happy Period; but give me Leave to take fome Notice of that Alteration or Increase, which happened in the Year 1733, with refpect to the Duties on foreign Brandies and Spirits; and give me Leave to fay, that from the very Nature of that Increase, it appears to me evident, that it ought to be taken into the Calculation, in order to increase the Medium of the Produce of the eight Years fince his Majefty's Acceffion; because the large Quantities of Flemish and Dutch Brandies, that were then imported, were not all brought hither to be confumed within that Year, there having been in that Year no greater Confumption, I believe, of fuch Liquors than in former Years: No, Sir, they were imported, in order to avoid paying that high Duty which was foon after to take Place, and were to be lodged here as a Stock in Hand, in order to fupply the Confumption for feveral Years then to come, therefore we muft fuppofe that that Stock, which was then thrown in upon us, has leffened the Importation of fuch Liquors, and confequently the Produce of the Duties upon them ever fince; fo that to exclude that Increase from our present Computation, would be doing a manifeft Injury to his Majefty, because it would be taking from him the Advantage which appears upon one Side of the Account, without making any Allowance for the Lofs, with which that Advantage is balanced upon the other Side of the Account.

From these Confiderations, Sir, I am convinced that 70,000l. is the leaft Sum the Crown can lofe, by taking from the Civil Lift that Share it formerly had of the Duties on Spirituous Liquors; and as we cannot now have any Certainty that any Part of this Lofs will be made good, by the Increase of the Duties on other Liquors, therefore I fhall give my Negative to the prefent Question, in order that the Queftion may be next put for filling up the Blank in this Claufe with the Sum of 70,000l. to which I fhall moft heartily give my Affirmative.'

To this it was replied by the Members, who were for granting only 43,000l. for the faid Deficiency, as follows:

Sir

Sir,

Tho' the proper Question now before us be not, whether

Anno g. Geo. II, 1736.

more than 43,000 1.

the Civil Lift may be a Lofer or a Gainer by diminishing Farther Arguments the Confumption of Spirituous Liquors, yet we find from for granting no what has been faid on both Sides, that it is impoffible to argue upon the prefent Question, without touching a little what belongs to the other; and when we do come to the other, I hope to make it as plain as Figures can make it, that without any Allowance from the Aggregate Fund, as is propofed by this Claufe, the Civil Lift will be a Gainer by the Diminution, or rather Prohibition of the Ufe of Spirituous Liquors by Retail: But in confidering this Question, we ought to diftinguish most accurately what the Gentlemen of the other Side feem moft industrioufly to confound: We ought to diftinguish between this Queftion, Whether the Civil Lift will be a Lofer by taking from it the Share it formerly had in the Duties upon Spirituous Liquors ? And the other Question, Whether the Civil Lift will upon the Whole be a Lofer by diminishing the Confumption of Spirituous Liquors ?

• With Regard to the first of these Questions, Sir, it is what we have nothing to do with; for no Man ever doubted, but that the Civil Lift will be a Lofer by taking from it that Share of the Duties on Spirituous Liquors, which formerly belonged to it: But with Regard to the other Queftion, If the Lofs the Civil Lift may fuftain by diminishing the Confumption of Spirituous Liquors, or even by taking from it the Share it had formerly in the Duties upon fuch Liquors, if this Lofs, I fay, be made good to the Civil Lift, by the Increase that will thereby be occafioned in its Share of the Duties upon Beer and Ale and all other Sorts of Liquors, are we then bound, either in Juftice or Honour, to make that Loss a second Time good to the Civil Lift, out of that Fund which is appropriated to the Payment of our Debts, and to the Relief of our People from the heavy Taxes they groan under? I fay, No, Sir; both Honour and Juftice are, in my Opinion, staked upon the other Side of the Queftion, and I hope this Houfe will always be upon that Side, where they are at Stake.

It is true, Sir, that by the prefent Establishment of the Civil Lift there are a great many Duties appropriated towards the raifing of that Revenue, with the Provifo, that if they do not produce 800,000l. yearly, if there happens a Deficiency, we are to make it good; but if there happens an Increase or Surplus, the Whole fhall belong to his Majefty. This, I grant, is the prefent Eftablishment of that Revenue, but this Day's Debate fhew us the Inconvenience of making fuch Establishments; and I am very fure, that

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neither

Anno 9. Geo. II. neither his Majefty nor the Parliament ever thought, or ever 1736. intended, that any of thofe Surpluffes fhould be increased by any Thing that might tend to the Deftruction of the People in general; nor was it ever intended, that the Parliament fhould not have it in its Power to prevent, or to put a Stop to a pernicious Confumption, without making good to the Civil Lift the Surplus that had arifen from that very pernicious Confumption. It may as well be pretended, that if the Plague should spread itself over Spain and Portugal, we could not prohibit Commerce with them, or prevent the Importation of their Wines, without making good to the Civil Lift its Share in the Duties upon thofe Wines, at a Medium to be computed for eight Years paft: Whereas in fuch a Cafe, I believe, it will be granted, that the highest Obligation we could lye under, would be to make the Civil Lift good 800,000 l. a Year, in Cafe the Produce of the other Duties appropriated for that Purpofe fhould fall fhort of that Sum.

But, Sir, the Cafe now under our Confideration ftands in a much stronger Light; for if all the Duties appropriated to the Civil Liit now produce a Million Sterling yearly, the Regulation we are to make, tho' it may intirely take away one Branch of that Revenue, or very much diminish it, yet it will increase fome of the others fo much, that altogether they will still produce at least a Million yearly; and the utmolt that can be pretended is, that the Parliament shall not by any new Regulation diminish the general Produce, or general Surplus of the Civil Lift Revenue, as it ftands at prefent, or may ftand at any future Period of Time. Nay, even with Respect to this general Produce of the whole Duties appropriated to the Civil Lift, we ought to diftinguish between thofe Regulations, which may proceed from accidental Misfortunes or the Nature of Things, and those Regulations which may proceed meerly from the Will and Authority of Parliament; because his Majefty's unaccountable Right to this general Produce muft remain fubject to the former, tho' perhaps not to the latter: If the Parliament should discharge or give up any of the Duties now appropriated to the Civil Lift, or apply them to fome other Ufe, it might perhaps be faid that we fhould be obliged to make the Lofs good to his Majesty, even tho' it should be made appear, that the remaining Duties would produce more than 800,000l. a Year: This, I fay, might be faid, tho' I am far from thinking fo; but if a War, or a Plague, or any fuch Misfortune fhould oblige us to make a Regulation, by which the Produce of any one of the Duties now appropriated to the Civil Lift fhould be intirely annihilated, or very much diminifhed, I am fure it could not be faid, that

we

1736.

ewe fhould be obliged to make the Lofs good to the Civil Anno 9. Geo. II. Lift, as long as the remaining Duties produced the full Sum of 800,000l. a Year; and the Reafon is plain, because this was a Misfortune incident to the Duty when granted, and therefore the Grant of that Duty muft ftill remain liable to this Misfortune.

Now, Sir, in the present Cafe, if instead of the high Duties by this Bill propofed, we had made a fevere Law against Drunkennefs, and had inflicted high Penalties upon all those who should have got drunk, or should have allowed any Person to get drunk in any of their Houses, after Michaelmas next; and had by fuch Means put an effectual Stop to that pernicious Practice of drinking to Excefs, would not fuch a falutary Law have much diminished the Produce of most of those Duties appropriated to the Civil Lift? In which Cafe I would gladly ask the Gentlemen of the other Side of the Queftion, If they would, or could with any Reafon have infifted, that we were obliged to make the Lofs good to his Majefty, even tho' the remaining Produce should till have amounted to above 800,000 l. a Year? And again I would ask them, Wherein the Difference lyes between a Law for prohibiting Drunkenness, and a Law for laying fuch high Duties upon Liquors, as to prevent its being in the Power of moft Men to purchase a Quantity fufficient for making them drunk?

⚫ I fhall agree with the honourable Gentleman, Sir, that if I furrender a Part of my Estate to my Neighbour for his Conveniency, it is most reasonable he fhould make good to me the Damage I may fuftain by fuch Surrender: But how is this applicable to the prefent Cafe? We do not defire any Surrender, we defire that the Duties may ftand appropriated as they are at prefent; and we infift upon it, that no Damage can happen to his Majesty by what we propofe: It is the Gentlemen of the other Side of the Question who infift upon making a Surrender, and tho' they know they can sustain no Damage by that Surrender, yet they infift upon our paying them what Price they please to fet upon it. We have indeed given a Lottery Ticket, and I believe that Ticket has proved to be a Benefit Ticket: We do not defire to take away any Part of that Benefit; but we find, that the very Fund from which that Benefit is to arife, is in Danger; and we only defire, that thofe to whom we gave this Benefit Ticket, would join with us in Measures for preferving that Fand: This is but reasonable; and fince this can no way diminish the Benefit they are entitled to, it is not reafonable they should infift upon our giving them another Benefit Ticket for joining with us in a Measure, which appears to be neceffary for our mutual Preservation.

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