It is

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I fhall not, Sir, difpute the Confequence of our Sugar Anno 9. Geo. I. Inlands to this Kingdom, or its being a Lofs to them to leffen the Confumption of their Rum in Great Britain; but I am convinced they might fell their Rum cheaper, and yet have a confiderable Profit. If they fhould lower the Price of their Rum but a very little, they might find a Vent for it in many other Places, a Vent, which would be more than fufficient for anfwering the fmall Diminution, that may by this Law be occafioned in the Confumption of it in Great Britain; and that Foreign Vent, would be more to the Advantage of their native Country than felling the fame Quantity at double the Price to be confumed in this Ifland. therefore against the general Intereft of this Country, to encourage the Home-Confumption fo much, as to enable our Planters to fell all they can make at a high Price in Great Britain; and on the other Hand it is our Duty to take all poffible Measures for enabling them to fell it at a cheap Rate to Foreigners; for if the Price of Rum could be fo much redaced, as that it might be purchased cheaper than Brandy or Geneva, vaft Quantities of it would be confumed in North America, in Africa, and in the Countries bordering upon the Baltick; and even at Home the Confumption of French and Flemish Brandies would be very much 'diminished.

I do not know, Sir, but by prohibiting the Retail of Punch, fome fmall Addition may be made to our Confumption of Wines; but then it will be with refpect to Port Wines only; and as our Trade with Portugal is, in the main, a very profitable Trade, it is our Intereft to encourage it as much as we can: However, I rather think most of thofe who used to drink Punch, will drink Fine Ale and Strong Beer, or thofe Home-made Wines which we call Sweets; and it is as much the Intereft of the Nation to encourage the Confumption of thefe Liquors, as that of any other. By increafing the Confumption of Fine Ale and Strong Beer, we fhall encourage the Tillage of our Lands in Great Britain; and by increafing the Confumption of Homemade Wines, we fhall encourage the Trade of our SugarIlands, because in the making fuch there are great Quantities of Sugar used; fo that if they fhould become of as general Ufe as Punch is at prefent, our Demand for Sugars mat neceffarily be increased.

To conclude, Sir, if you exempt Punch from the Duties to be impofed by this Bill, you will render it altogether ineffectual; for under the Name of the Liquor exempted, every Sort of Spirituous Liquor will be retailed: Our Brandy-Shops and our Gin-Shops will then be all turned into Panch Shops, our People will be as much debauched, and

Our

1736.

Anno 9. Geo. 11. our Streets as full of Objects of Pity and Contempt as ever. For this Reason, Sir, I am for making an Experiment, at leaft, for one Year, of the Bill as it ftands at prefent: As it is a very extraordinary Regulation, we fhall probably in next Seffion have Occafion to make fome Alterations: By that Time we fhall fee what Effect the diminishing the Retail of Punch will have upon our People; we shall likewife fee what Effect it may be like to have upon our Sugar-Colonies. In the mean Time the Prohibition cannot be attended with any extraordinary bad Effect, and therefore I fhall be against adding the Claufe which the honourable Gentleman has propofed.'

Farther Arguments in Favour of the Claufe.

To this it was replied by the Members, who were for the Claufe:

Sir,

When the honourable Gentleman [Sir Jofeph Jekyll] was pleased to find Fault with the great Number of our Punch-Houfes, I wish he had added Taverns and Alehouses, for I am convinced the great Number of the latter is as fenfible a Grievance as the former; and have contrived more Temptations for People to loiter away their Time: But the unbounded Liberty fo many Years given to fetting up Publick Houses of all Kinds, proceeds from an Error in Politicks, by which it was the Intereft of those to multiply fuch Houfes, who only had the Power to prevent their Increase. This, Sir, is the true Cause of that prodigious Number of Houses of Entertainment fet up in every Part of this Kingdom; and the Power of thofe, to whom we had given an Intereft in fuch Houses, has been fo confiderable, that it was in vain for any Gentleman to propofe a Remedy. Notwithstanding the terrible Outcry, that was univerfally raised against the exceffive Ufe of Spirituous Liquors amongst the Common People, I doubt much if we could have applied any effectual Remedy, unless fome Persons had found it their Intereft to agree

to it.

I fhall readily agree, Sir, that the prefent Number of our Punch-Houfes is too great; but there is a great Difference between too great a Number, and none at all: By the Propofition now made, the Retailing of Punch will be confined to Houfes where other ftrong Liquors are by Licence to be fold, which will of Course very much diminish the Number of our Punch-Houfes; and where Men are allowed to drink any other Sort of ftrong Liquor, I can fee no Reafon why they may not be allowed to drink Punch, for I am perfuaded it is as wholefome a Liquor as can be found at fuch Houfes. I with, Sir, that effectual Methods had been taken, many Years fince, for preventing our People from fupporting their Families by the Retail of Spirituous Liquors: I am con

vinced,

1730.

vinced, that thereby the Labour and Induftry of all our Peo- Anno 9. Geo. 11. ple has been very much diminished, and therefore I wish fome effectual Restraints had been laid upon those, who have the Power of granting fuch Licences. Though the publick Good certainly requires an immediate Restraint upon the exceffive Ufe of Spirituous Liquors, yet I cannot think that a Prohibition of felling any fuch Liquors by Retail, especially when they are rectified by Water, or made into Punch, can be abfolutely neceffary: Nay, if fuch a Prohibition were neceffary, my Concern for the Numbers of People who now live by that Retail is fuch, that I fhould rather be for introducing the Prohibition by Degrees; by which Method a general Diftrefs would be prevented; because fome would die in the mean Time, and the rest would have Time to provide a Livelihood in some other Way.

This Bill would, I believe, have met with very little Succefs, if it had not been fupported by another Propofition which is now made Part of it. I fhall admit, Sir, that those who find a private Interest in any publick Nufance, generally endeavour to oppofe its Removal, even although they are fully fenfible that their Country must be ruined by its Continuance. Of fuch Men, I am afraid we have too many in this Kingdom, but I hope not one in this House.

With refpect to our Sugar-Colonies, Sir, I am furprised to hear fuch Reasoning upon that Subject. They may probably be ruined by prohibiting the Retail of their Rum in Great Britain; but Gentlemen fay, we may give them a full Compenfation the next Seffion; which to me feems the fame as if I fhould fay to a Man, I must now knock your Brains out, but next Year I'll do fomething to bring you to Life again: For God's Sake, Sir, let us confider the unfortunate Cafe of many of our Sugar-Iflands, whose whole Subfiftence depends upon the Sale of that Moiety of their Rum, which we are by this Bill to deprive them of: The Produce of their whole prefent Crop of Sugars, and the other Moiety of their Rum, may be neceffary for defraying the Charge of their next Year's Crop; and if we difappoint them in the Sale of what they defigned for fubfifting their Families, they must break in upon the Stock neceffary for producing another Crop; by which Means every Sugar-Planter, who is not beforehand with the World, muft neceffarily be undone: This I am perfuaded will be the Cafe of most of our fmall Planters, and in them we know the Strength of our Sugar-Iflands confifts; tho' the Regulations we are next Year to make may be a Compenfation to those who can ftand the Shock. There is no Pretence for faying that the Ufe of Rum when made into Punch, for one Year longer, will deftroy the Health or Morals of the People of Great Britain, therefore

VOL. IV.

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why

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Anno 9. Geo. II. why fhould we do an Injury to our Sugar-Planters, 'till we are ready to grant them a proper Redrefs? Why should we prevent the Sale of their Rum in Great Britain, 'till we have made fuch Regulations as may enable them to fell it to Advantage at fome other Market?

We are told, Sir, that our Sugar-Planters might fell their Rum much cheaper, and yet have a confiderable yearly Profit from their feveral Plantations; but I wish that fort of Reasoning had been founded upon Facts known to the Houfe; for I believe, if we were to examine our SugarPlanters, they would give us ftrong Reafons for convincing us, that in their prefent Circumftances it is impoffible to fell their Sugars or Rum cheaper. We all know how dear living it is in our Sugar-Iflands, what Taxes they pay, and what monitrous Prices they give for their Slaves, and for every Thing elfe neceffary for the Production of Sugars: We likewife know at what a cheap Rate both Sugars and Rum are fold upon the Spot where they are produced, and if we compare the Expence and the Profits together, the Impoffibility of felling cheaper will fully appear. It certainly would be an Advantage to the Nation, to enable our Sugar-Planters to fell their Rum at foreign Markets rather than in Great Britain; but it is not the Price the poor Planters fell it at, which prevents its being fold in foreign Markets; it is the wife Regulations we have made here at home; for we feem to have taken Care to prevent its being in their Power to difpofe of their Rum at any foreign Market: In the first Place, their Rum must be all landed in Great Britain, before it can be carried to any foreign Market in Europe; fo that it must be charged with double Freight and double Commiffion, befides Porterage, Wharfage, and feveral other fmall Items upon the Importation and Exportation, all which, upon fuch a cheap and fuch a bulky Commodity, muß amount to more than the Value of the prime Coft: And in the next Place we know that, in order to make Rum palatable, it must be kept in a good Cellar for feveral Years; now there are but few of our Planters can spare to keep their Rum by them, nor would it be proper to keep it in those hot Climates; and yet by obliging our Merchants at home to pay the high Duties upon it foon after its landing, we render it impoffible for most of them to keep it 'till it is fit for any Market; or if fome of them do, the Intereft of the Duties upon it at home rifes fo high, that it becomes impoffible to fell it to Advantage at any foreign Market. Both thefe Difadvantages might be very eafily removed; and when this is done we may perhaps make free with our Home-Confumption of that Liquor; but 'till then I am convinced, the putting a Stop to our Home-Confump

tion.

tion, will be running the Risk of ruining intirely our Sugar- Anno9 Geo. II. Colonies.

It is faid, Sir, that upon our prohibiting the Retail of Punch, our People will fall naturally into the drinking of Fine Ale, Strong Beer, and Home-made Wines. I wish it may be fo; and I am convinced the putting a Stop to the Ufe of Spirituous Liquors, will increase the Confumption of Beer and Ale, tho' this has been denied, or at least much doubted of, by the fame Gentlemen in a former Debate on this Bill; but as for most of our Punch-Drinkers, they are generally the better Sort of our People, and most of them will fall into the drinking of foreign Wines, which Confumption will not be confined to the Wines of Portugal only; for the Spanish and Italian Wines will certainly come in for a Share, as well as French Clarets. As for our Home-made Wines, the Ufe of them will never become fo general as the Use of Punch; and unless this happens to be the Cafe, our Sugar-Colonies will fuffer in the Confumption of their Sugars as well as their Rum.

I will allow that by prohibiting the Retail of Punch, fome little Addition will be made to the Confumption of our Home-made Wines; but I am convinced the chief Addition will be to the foreign Wines, which muft neceffarily be a great Difadvantage to the Nation, tho' it will be a double Advantage to the Civil Lift; for that Revenue will be confiderably increased by the great Number of new Wine-Licences, that will of Course be taken out, every Shilling of the Duties upon which belongs to the Civil Lift; and it will befides get a great deal more by the Confumption of Wine, than it could have ever got by the Confumption of Rum made into Punch; for as one Bottle of good Rum made into Punch, will go as far as four Bottles of Wine; and as the Civil Lift gets at least 16 d. by the Confumption of four Bottles of Wine, and but 9 d. or 10 d. at most by one Bottle of Rum made into Punch, the Civil Lift will be a double Gainer by this Change of Liquors. 'Tis true, a confiderable Addition has always been made by Adulteration to foreign Wines after they are imported, fo that we cannot fuppofe the Civil Lift will get 4d. by every Bottle hereafter to be confumed: But then if the drinking of Punch be continued, we cannot reckon that the Civil Lift could get 9 d. or 10 d. by every Bottle of Rum made ufe of, because great Quantities of Punch have always been made of Rum run in without paying Duty; and the Quantity of Punch, made from fuch Liquors, will always be at least equal to the Quantity added by our Wine-Coopers to foreign Wines after Importation.

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The

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