By two Acts of Parliament 9 Will. Regis, and two other】 } A&ts 6 & 10 Annæ Reginæ. BANK of ENGLAND. On their original Fund at 61. per Cent. For cancelling Exchequer-Bills Anno 3 Georgii primi. 1500000 1500000 Purchased of the South-Sea Company. 4000000 4000000 Annuities at 41. per Cent. charged on the Duty of Coals fince Lady Day 1719. 1750000 1750000 Ditto charged on the Surpluffes of the Funds for Lottery 2 1250000 1250000 800000 800000 SOUTH-SEA Company. Anno 10. Geo. On Monday, March 21, the Houfe having refolved: II.1736-7. into a Committee of the whole Houfe, to confider of a National Debt; and the above State of the National D having been referred to the faid Committee, as foon as Charles Turner had taken the Chair, Sir John Barnard! up and made a Motion, for enabling his Majefty to Money either by the Sale of Annuities for Years or Liv at fuch Rates as should be prefcribed, or by borrowing Interest not exceeding 3 per Cent. to be applied tow redeeming of the Old and New South Sea Annuities; that fuch of the faid Annuitants as fhould be incline a fubfcribe their refpective Annuities, fhould be preferre all others. Upon this Motion there were long Debates, fo that Committee did not come to any Refolution that D therefore, 'twas refolved, That the Houfe would, that Day Sevennight, refolve itself into a Committee of t whole Houfe, to confider further of the National De and it having been much infifted on, in this Debate, there was a great Part of the South-Sea Old and New nuities in the Hands of Widows and Orphans, and Pers who were Proprietors for very fmall Sums, therefore, Day 'twas ordered, That an Account should be laid be the Houfe, of the Quantity of Old and New South Annuity Stock, and the Number of Annuitants who we intitled to any fuch Stock, not exceeding 1000l. to ea Annuitant; and alfo, 'twas ordered, That an Accou fhould be laid before the Houfe, of the Quantity of O and New South Sea Annuity Stock, holden by any cutors, Adminiftrators, and Trustees, and the Number fuch Trufts: Which Accounts were prefented to the Hos by Mr. John Bristow on the Friday following; and t Monday the Order of the Day being read, and thefe Aj counts referred to the Committee, the Houfe refolved again into the faid Committee, when the Debate upon Exe aforefaid Motion was refumed; in which Sir John Barri fpoke in Subftance as followeth, viz. SIR, As fome Things I mentioned in the Committee of Supply, gave Rife to the Houfe's refolving itself into this Committee, I think it incumbent upon me to rife up order to explain and enforce what I then mentioned be fuperficially, and to make you fuch a Propofition as I think may at this Jun&ture be made effectual, for reducing the Intereft payable upon a Part of the National Debts, and for eafing the People of a Part of that heavy Load c Taxes they now groan under. In the Committee of Supp I mentioned only the Application of the Million, to be Anno 10. Geo I paid at Michaelmas next, to fuch of the South-Sea Old An. II. 1736-7. nuitants only, as are not willing to accept of an Interest of 3 per Cent. for if there are any who are willing to accept of fuch an Intereft, and I am convinced there are a great many, I must think it a very absurd Sort of Conduct in the Public, to make any Payment to them, as long as there is any one public Creditor who will not accept of fuch a low Intereft: However, as this House feems to be of a contrary Opinion, I fhall readily fubmit; but as the House then refolved upon the Committee we are now in, I thought myfelf obliged as a Member of this House, and as one who fincerely defires to fee the Nation freed from its Debt, and the People freed from their perpetual Taxes, I mean fuch as are made perpetual by Parliament; I fay, I thought myfelf obliged to turn my Thoughts that Way; and from confidering our present Circumftances, and the prefent low Rate of Intereft, I am of Opinion, that the Scheme for reducing the Intereft of the public Debts may be pushed further than I then propofed or thought on. Every one knows, Sir, that the Price of all our public Funds is now at a higher Rate than ever it was before, upon any reasonable Foundation: Every one knows, that even those publick Securities, which bear an Intereft of 3 per Cent. only, now fell at a Premium in 'Change Alley; and I must be of Opinion, it would be an unpardonable Neglect in us, not to endeavour to take Advantage of that happy Circumftance, for the Benefit of the Public. I am perfuaded there are few or none, who are willing to give a Premium for any 3 per Cert. Security, but would willingly lend his Money to the Government at the fame Intereft, if Books of Subfcription were opened for that Purpose, with an Affurance that no Part of his Principal fhould be paid off for 14 Years; and therefore, I think, we ought to have fuch Books always lying open at the Exchequer, or fome other convenient Place, for taking in the Subscriptions of those who are willing to lend at 3 per Cent. in order to pay off the fooner fuch of the public Creditors as are not willing to accept of a lower Intereft than Four. If this were done, it would convince all our public Creditors, who are now intitled to an Interest of 4 per Cent. that the Government is in earnest, and firmly refolved to pay them off as foon as poffible; and as the only Contest among the public Creditors now is, which of them fhall be the laft in being paid off, 'tis more than probable, the far greatest Part of them would come in and fubfcribe what is due to them respectively, at an Intereft of 3 per Cent. rather than run the Anno 10. Geo. the Risk of being quickly paid off the whole, or the greatII. 1736.7. eft Part of their Capital, by means of the Sinking Fund, and the Money Subfcriptions at 3 per Cent. That the Rate of Intereft upon public Securities has always had, and always will have, a great Influence upon the Rate of Interest between Man and Man, is what, I believe, Sir, no Gentleman will queftion; for as upon public Securities a Man is always fure of having his Intereft regularly paid, and may have his Principal whenever he has a Mind, which are two Advantages he can never be affured of, in lending upon the most undoubted private Security, it is certain the natural Rate of Interest upon public Securities will always be lower than the natural Rate of Interest upon private; therefore the only Method of reducing the latter is, to reduce the former; and when you have reduced both, then, and not till then, you may fafely venture to reduce the legal: And that a low Rate of Intereft upon private Securities, is of great Advantage to every Nation where it can be brought about, is what can be as little queftioned by those who have any Regard to Experience, or to the Nature of Things. But as this depends upon Speculations, and upon Facts which fome Gentlemen may not perhaps be acquainted with, I fhall beg Leave to enlarge a little upon the Subject. 'Tis certain, Sir, the Strength and Power of a Nation can be increased only by multiplying its Inhabitants, increafing its Trade, or improving its Lands; for Extent of Territory weakens, inftead of ftrengthening a Nation, if that Territory lies defart and thinly inhabited; because the greater Frontier a Nation has to defend, the more they will be exposed to Infults and Incurfions, unless every Part of the Frontier be fo well stock'd with People, that they are able to defend themselves against any fudden Invafion; and the Frontiers of every Country will always be worft flocked with People; for Mankind always retire from Danger, if they can; which is the Reafon for the Heart or Middle Part of every Country's being generally the most populous. As to the multiplying or increafing the Number of Inhabitants in any Country, it must always proceed from the Increase of its Trade, or the Improvement of its Land; for let the People be as prolific as poffible, let them be as prolific as ever the Northern Parts of Europe, or of this very Island, have appeared to have been, if they cannot find Imployment and Subfiftence at home, they will wander abroad either in armed Bodies, or as fingle Adventurers, to feek for that in foreign Countries, which they cannot find in their own. It is therefore highly requifite for every Nation Nation to take every poffible Method for increafing its Anno 10. Geo. Trade, and improving its Land; and nothing can tend II. 1736-7. more to either of thefe Purposes, than a low Rate of Inte reft for the Use or Forbearance of the Payment of Money between Man and Man. With respect to Trade, Sir, it is either foreign or domeftic, and both depend in a great Measure upon the low Rate of Intereft; for Mankind naturally pursue that which is their greatest Advantage, and but few Men will be either frugal, diligent, or induftrious, if they can live otherwife; therefore, if a Man can live indolently upon the Intereft of his Money, he will generally follow no Trade or Imployment; and if he can make more of his Money by lending it at Intereft, than he can make by imploying it in Trade or the Improvement of Land, he will always chuse the former. For this Reafon the People of a Country, where the Rate of Interest is high, will never carry on any Trade for fo small a Profit, as the People of a Country will do where the Intereft of Money is low; nor will the Perfons engaged in Trade ever be fo numerous or fo rich in the former, as in the latter. Suppofe in this Country, a Man may make 5 or 4 per Cent. of his Money, by lending it at Intereft upon a certain Security; we cannot, in that Cafe, fuppofe that any Man will take the Trouble of carry. ing on any Trade, by which he cannot make 8 or 10 per Cent. Profit: Whereas in Holland, where a Man can never get more than 3 and often not above 2 per Cent. by lending his Money at Intereft upon a certain Security, we muft fuppofe that in that Country, a Man will be glad to engage in any Trade, by which he can make 6 or 4 per Cent. Profit; and an additional Advantage is, that in Hol land a Man who has but 1000l. or 2000l. Capital must neceffarily engage in Trade, because he cannot live upon the legal Interest of his Money; whereas a Man of that Capital in this Country, may live comfortably in moft Corners of the Kingdom upon the legal Intereft of his Money; fo that more Men, and Men of greater Stocks, are neceffarily drove into Trade in that Country than in this; and their People will willingly engage in a great many Branches of Traffic, which no Man in this Kingdom will touch at; because he can make as much, or very near as much, by imploying his Money in our Funds, as he could expect to make by that Traffic. This, Sir, gives the Dutch, and the French too, a great I |