Anno 10. Geo, lieve most of the useless ones, are held for Life, and are a II.1736-7. fort of Free-hold, we could not at once, and without any Confideration, turn the prefent Poffeffors out of their Freehold; therefore, from fuch an Enquiry the Nation could not expect any great immediate Advantage; at leaft, not fuch a great and immediate Advantage, as would be fufficient for making good the Deficiency in the Supplies for the next enfuing Year. . I hope, Sir, I have faid enough for convincing every Gentleman, that the Method now under our Confideration, for making good the Supplies of this next enfuing Year, will in all Probability be fufficient for the End propoted; and that of all the Methods that have been proposed, or fo much as hinted at, it is the leatt burdenfome, and the leaft liable to occafion any fresh Murmurs among the People: therefore it is certainly the Method we ought to chufe. It is, indeed, in my Opinion, the only Method we have to chufe; for, I think, I have fhewn, that the other two Methods that have been mentioned, are both impracticable; and as I join in that which feems to be the general Opinion, that the Supplies we have already voted ought to be made good, I think I am both in Honour and Conícience bound to give my Affent to the Propofition now before us, because it is the only Method we can chufe for doing that which every Gentleman acknowledges ought to be done." This is the Subftance of the feveral Debates which happened in this Affair relating to Sweets; in which those who were for the Duty got the better upon every Divifion, except one, which was in relation to that Clause in the Bill, whereby it is provided, that nothing in that A&t contained should extend, or be conftrued to extend, to charge with any Duty, fuch Wine as the Owners or Occupiers of British Vineyards fhould make from the Juice of the Grapes only growing thereon; for the Adding of any fuch Clause, to exempt fuch Liquors from the Duty on Sweets, was oppofed by most of the Gentlemen who were Favourers of the Duty and Bill; however, upon a Divifion it was carried against them, and the Claufe, as it now ftands, was accordingly inferted in the Bill. On Monday, May 16th. A Bill entitled, " An A&t to difable Alexander Wilson, Efq; from taking, bolding, or enjoying any Office or Place of Magiftracy in the City of Edinburgh, or elsewhere in Great Britain, and for imprifoning the faid Alexander Wilson, and for abolishing the Guard kept up in the faid City, commonly called the Town Guard, and for taking away the Gates of the Nther-Bow Part of the faid City, and keeping open the fame." The The Title of the Bill being read, Anno 10 Geo, II. 1736-7. Efq; James Oglethorpe, Efq; oppofed the receiving the Bill at all: Because he was of Opinion that the House of Lords James Oglethorpe, would refuse to receive from that House any Bill of Pains and Penalties, which might affect any Member of their House: And that if fuch a Precedent was fet, as that a. House of Peers for every Offence committed, or fuppofed to be committed by a Commoner, might fend down a Bill of Pains and Penalties to be paffed in the House of Commons, the Independency of the Commons must be utterly broken.' 6 Sir John Barnard. Suppose the Bill which is fent down Sir John Barstard. had enacted, that among other Pains and Penalties the City of Edinburgh fhould from henceforth cease to be a City or Corporation. Could any Gentleman, after the paffing fuch a Bill, have kept his Seat in this House as Member for that City or Corporation? Sir, he must have ceased to be a Member, as foon as the Corporation he reprefented ceased to be a Corporation: And fhall we ever receive a Bill from the other House for turning one of our own Members out of Doors? This House ought to fhew as much Refpect for their Conftituents, from whom they derive their Right of fitting here, as they would do to their Representatives themfelves. If any Preference is due, it is due to that Body from whom they derive their Right of fitting in this Place; for while they are judging one of their own Members, they are judging of their own Privileges; but while they are judging of their Conftituent's Rights or Properties, they are judging of what is not their own, but what they have only in Truft; and of which they therefore ought to be more tender. Duncan Forbes, Efq; It would found very ill, that a Duncan Forbes, Esq; British House of Commons, in which there are but Forty five Representatives for Scotland, fhould receive fuch a Bill: Edinburgh is now a City of Great Britain, nay, the second City. And I appeal to the Gentlemen who represent the Cities and Boroughs of England, to know in what Manner they would treat a Bill inflicting fuch Pains and Penalties upon any of the Cities which they reprefent. They are in Honour obliged to protect the Commons of Scotland as much as the Commons of England; because the Scots trufted to their Honour, when they united with them upon the Terms they did. They are in Prudence obliged to protect the Privileges of every Borough of Scotland as much as the Privileges of any Borough of England; because no IncroachSff 2 ment Then the King's Advocate for Scotland, fince President of the Se Tum there. 1736-7. ( 508 ) Anno. 1o. Geo. II. ment can be made, no Injury done to the one, but what may be made a Precedent for doing the fame to the other: If they allow the other House to incroach upon the Privileges of the Commons of Scotland, it will be a Precedent for their incroaching upon the Commors of England. If they accept of this Bill, if they give it a Reading. I shall foon expect to fee a Bill brought them from the other Houft, for turning fome of their Members out of Doors." Sir William Yonge. Sir Robert Walpole. Sir William Yonge. The other House has a Power of enquiring. When they begun the Exercife of that Power, they found it neceffary to go a Step farther, and to punish as well as enquire, which they could do no otherwife than by the Bill now before us. As this is their only Aim, as it is an Aim which cannot but be approved, I hope this House will not be too jealous of its Privileges on fuch an Occafion; for even tho' it were indifputable that the other Houfe ought not to be allowed to bring in a Bill for inflicting Pains and Penalties upon any City or Borough of Great Britain, yet in a Cafe where no Incroachment is intended, and which may fo greatly contribute to the domeftic Peace and Quiet of the Kingdom, it is abfolutely neceffary for both Houfes, not to be over-fcrupulous in Point of Privilege.' Sir Robert Walpole. It was very natural for the other Houfe to enter upon this Enquiry, becanfe there is generally a Kind of Ceffation of Bufinefs in that House, during the first three or four Weeks of the Seffion, which are generally in the Houfe of Commons taken up in fettling the Supplies for the current Services of the Government. I am as jealous of the Rights of this Houfe, as any Gentleman here; but I think too fcrupulous a Jealoufy may at this Time be attended with the worst of Confequences. Ar to what my Honourable and Learned Friend behind me mentioned, about the Tenderness we ought to fhew to the Corporations and Boroughs we reprefent, efpecially thofe of Scotland; I think, Sir, our going upon this Bill is the greatest Mark of Tenderness we can fhew. It is in order to punish, in a more examplary Manner, a Practice, that has been but too much encouraged of late; a Practice, that if not fuppreffed, muft destroy the Right of all Corporations, and perhaps abolish the Privileges of this Houfe, and the very Form of our Conftitution. The other House haying entered upon this Enquiry, has brought the Bill to fuch a Forwardness, that perhaps it may come Time enough to prevent the Confequences before it is too late; therefore, I think, we are rather obliged to the Care and Concern Concern they have taken in this Affair, and I hope Gentle- Anno 10. Geo men will not oppofe the Bill, without better Reasons than II. 1736-7. any that have yet appeared.' Sir William Windham. I am very forry that what the Sir William Honourable Gentleman who spoke laft has faid is but too Windham. rue. The firft Part of our Seffion is commonly spent in granting Money to the Crown; but formerly it was otherwife; and if this House had taken Example by their Anceftors, instead of voting a Supply the 2d or 3d Day of the Seffion, they would have voted an Enquiry into thofe Riots and Tumults, which of late have been fo frequent and fo general all over the Kingdom; for the People never grow tumultuous without fome Cause, and 'tis very probable the late Tumults have proceeded from fome Abuses or fome Grievances which they ought to enquire into. The best Way of judging of Men's Intentions is by their Actions; and as the Bill brought from the other House is certainly, as we think, an Incroachment upon the Privileges of this Houfe, the fureft and fafeft Way of judging is, to suppose an Incroachment was intended. Incroachments have always been made at the most favourable Junctures; and if ever the other House fhould endeavour to incroach upon this, they will always take Occafion to do it, with respect to Bills which feem abfolutely neceffary; fo that if we made the Expediency, or even the Neceffity of a Bill, a good Reafon for fubmitting to an Incroachment, we should very foon have no Privileges left. As this House is the Grand Inqueft of the Nation, it is their proper Bufinefs to enquire into all public Abuses, especially where any of their own -Members are concerned; and if the other Houfe does upon any Occafion take upon them to enquire into any fuch public Abufe, they ought to proceed no further; they might then at a Conference communicate to that House the Dif coveries they had made, and leave it to that House to proceed by Impeachment, or by a Bill of Pains and Penalties; which the other House might have done in the present Cafe; and their not having done fo feems to fhew, they had an Intention to take Advantage of that favourable Opportunity for making a little Incroachment upon a Privilege, which they knew would have otherwife been strenuoully contested. Whether or no there is a Neceffity for punishing the City, or any of the Magiftrates of Edinburgh, cannot appear to us now, and therefore cannot be an Argument of the leaft Weight. in this Debate; but fuppofe there is fuch a Neceflity, there is no Neceffity of the Seffion's breaking up at a certain Day. We may go upon an Enquiry immediately; the Witneffes are all in Town: thefe Anno 10. Geo, these Witneffes may foon be examined; and upon that En- faw Caufe; and that new Bill may país through bata The Bill however was read a firft Time, and upon 2 Mr. SPEAKER, SIR, The Concern which I have in this Bill, as it affects the Rights, the Privileges, and Franchises of the City which I have the Honour to reprefent in this Houle, as well as it affects perfonally him who has now the Honour to be the Chief Magiftrate of that City; this Concern, I fay, Sir, will (I hope) plead my Excufe to this Honourable Houle, for prefuming to take upon me, Sir, to fubmit to your Confideration, my Senfe of this Bill, and of the Effects of it, fhould it pass into a Law. Sir, That cruel, barbarous and inhuman Murder, that most outragious and atrocious Rict, which was committed at Edinburgh the 7th of September lav, must affect every Perfon of Humanity with Horror: And as it was, Sir, a trampling upon all Civil Governments, and a bold and manifelt Violation of the Laws, and a direct Infult upon the legal Authority, it cannot fail to raie Gentlemen's Indignation, and to roufe the Refentment of every true Briton to do Juftice to the Public, by pursuing any Measure that may be moft likely to punish to black a Crime, a Crime fo dangerous to civil Society, and to bring the execrable and defperate Authors of it to condign Punishment.But, Sir, I hope Gentlemen's Zeal for Juftice will not fo far blind their Understanding, as to allow themselves to be diverted fron the Pursuit of Juftice, ard to be mifled from the right Scent by falling upon the larscent, and there to allow the Guilty to escape and to pas unheeded. By whom, Sir, was this bloody Murder, this outrageous Riot committed? By a Mob, Sir; a Mob com pofed, as Mobs commonly are, of the loweft Clafs of the People, by Perfons of diffolute and bad Lives, and of wore Manners; Perfons who defpife the Office of Magiftracy, and hate the Perfons of Magiftrates, becaule Magiftrates pac.th and controul their Crimes, and restrain them from Aês cé Violence, and from committing Disorders; Perfons who are prone to do Mischief, and when they can do it with hopes af Ma No are the t |