1734-35. Mr John Drummond, in Support of the Motion for the Anno 8. Geo. II. Augmentation, took Notice of the Number of Forces the Dutch had on Foot, and their Difpofition to act in Concert Mr J. Drummond. with Great Britain.' Then Mr Robert Dundafs ftood up, Mr Dungafs. and spoke against the Augmentation, and mention'd the bad Purposes for which the Forces were employ'd, and inítanc'd the drawing up of the Regiment in the Abbey Close at Edinburgh, to over-awe the Election of the Scots Peers, or over-awe the Elections of Commoners; and to induce fuch Places as were conceiv'd to wifh for Troops, to vote for Courtiers, or otherwise to have the Troops remov'd from them.' To this Mr Duncan Forbes * answer'd, That the Drawing Mr D. Forbes. up the Troops in the Abbey Close was an ordinary Muster or Exercife of Arms; and the Abbey Clofe an ordinary Place for fuch Mufters; and that there was great Need of armed Force in Scotland; without which the notorious Inclination there to Smuggling and Cheating the Revenue, and to mutiny and refift the Execution of legal Procefs, could not be quell'd; and concluded with difapproving the Propofal for hiring Foreign Troops.' Hereupon Mr James Erskine ftood up and said, Sir, I am loth to take up the Time of the House, now it is fo late, but as the Affair of the Troops at the Election of the Sixteen Scots Peers has been mifreprefented; and as I am fully acquainted with the Truth of that Transaction, I hope the Houfe will indulge me. I believe no Member of this, or any other former Parliament, has ever afferted that a Standing Army was confiftent with our Conftitution, or even attempt to deny but it is dangerous to our Rights and Liberties. A Standing Army has been kept up, it is true, from Year to Year, and fometimes augmented, by pretending the Exigencies of the Times; but fuch Exigencies, that the fame, or other fuch, may to the World's End be pretended: So that if the fame mean and low Spirit continues in Britain, a Standing Army is for ever to be the Oppreffion of this once flourishing Liland. Thefe Arguments are indeed too general to be dwelt on, when the Queftion is not, Whether to have an Army; but, Whether to augment it? Since it seems granted on all Sides, that we must have an Army for this Year; that Britain moft for one Year longer fubmit to that Badge and great Mean of Slavery: But if it is fo dangerous to have any, it is ftill more dangerous to add to it; and if Exigencies requir'd fuch an Army as we had laft Year, yet it behoves us to fee the Exigencies, that requir'd fo large an Addition as 8000 more, before we ought to confent to it. • Lord Advocate for Sotland, · The Mr Erskine. Anno 8. Gco. 11. 1734-35 • The Pretext made ufe of is, that we and the Dutch are to be Mediators between the contending Powers of Europe, and that unarmed Mediators cannot effectually mediate ; yet the Dutch are to be unarm'd, not only by Sea, but are to add nothing to their Land-Forces, as was but now acknowledg'd: Tho' the other Day we were told, That as we should increase our Fleet, the Sea being our natural Barrier; fo would the Dutch augment their Troops, their Barrier being by Land. But now we fee that our Neighbours are to share with us the Honour and Advantage of Mediating, and we are to bear all the Burden: Yet it feems neither they nor we are indeed to be Mediators; for his Majefty's Speech fays only, that his good Offices, and the good Offices of the States General, had been accepted of; and as fome Gentlemen had openly in the Houfe deny'd that we were to be Mediators, they explain'd the accepting of these good Offices to be no more than barely to allow us to make Proposals to the Powers in War. And is this all the mighty Matter for which our domestick Army is to be augmented fo greatly? If a ftrong Army is neceffary for this Purpose, the Augmentation is too little: But any Augmentation in our prefent Circumftances is not the Way to make us to be regarded by the Potentates at War. They know our Cafe, that we are under vaft Debts, much whereof was contracted for no Purpofe, or for bad Purposes: And to fee us acting wifely and frugally, and to have Money and Credit as formerly, would give Britain the Weight it formerly had; and they know that then we could raife Troops at Home, and hire Abroad: But they would never believe us noticeable for having 25,000 or 26,000 Men in our Army at Home, with not a Farthing in our Pockets. After all, it seems hard to be believed that it is in earnest faid we are to be Mediators, or at all to interpofe, or that we are any ways afraid of the Confequences of the prefent War in Europe: For fome Years ago we were offer'd the Mediation, and then refus'd it; no doubt to fhew our Modefty, and that we were not fo vain as to take on us to offer Laws to France, & Nation fuperior to Britain, and whom then we obfequiously courted. And to fay, we now dread the Progrefs of the Arms of the French and their Confederates, one must be tempted to think but a Pretext: For fo wife Men as adminifter the British Affairs did certainly forefee it, and can not be frighted at the Confequences of their own Actions; fince all flow'd from the Introduction of Don Carlos into Italy, which was done by our own Fleet. I am, in my own private Opinion, fo little perfuaded of the Wisdom of that Expedition, that I hope the 30,000 Seamen, voted the other Day, are defign'd for 1734-35. for a better Purpose ; yet it is better to make an ible, tho' ex- Anno 8. Geo. 11. penfive Show of them at Spithead, than fend them Abroad to do Mischief. And all this appears from our fucceeding Conduct; for it would be a high Reflection to fuppofe the Intelligence of our Ministry so bad, that they knew not of the Alliance when forming betwixt France, Spain and Sardinia, and they could not but fee the Confequences of it. Yet they did nothing to ftop that Treaty; nor, when it was finish'd, to ftop their powerful Armies from entering Italy, where they have had fo great Succefs; and our Trade to which Country is now as precarious as our Trade to Spain: They likewife must have foreseen the Progrefs of the French Arms on the Rhine; for who did not know, that the Emperor, having a great Army in Italy, was over-power'd by a greater; and that France, in the German War, having nothing to apprehend from Italy or Spain, as in former Wars, could not but be an Over-match for the Emperor on the Rhine? Therefore as all this has happen'd, having been forefeen and help'd on by our own Ministry, the Fear faid to arise from thence must be but an affected Pretence, as well as the Mediation which we had formerly refused, and now did not pretend was offer'd to us: Nay, if it was otherwife, yet this Augmentation of our Army is not the right Way to make us confiderable in the Mediation, nor a good Way to act for ourfelves, fince we are not like to be attack'd this Year. 'I can't help taking Notice of what was faid by the Gentleman who spoke laft, [Mr Duncan Forbes] relating to the Ufe of Troops in Scotland. I am forry that fuch Things fhould be faid of that Country, by a Gentleman whom I regard fo much, and whofe Worth and Learning I am not a Stranger to: I dare affert the Law, and the Execution of legal Procefs, in Scotland has free Course without the Affistance of Troops: I have heard of no remarkable Instance of the Interpofition of Troops in fuch Cafes; but when it was done illegally by thofe in Power and Office, to the Oppreffion of the Subjects, and Overthrow of our Liberties, and contrary to Law; Inftances of which I can give, and I hope will in due Time be adverted to, and meet with deferved Rebuke. There are more Inftances of Mutiny and Tumult in England than in Scotland; and more Running of Goods in a few Days on the Thames, than in all Scotland for a Year. [Here he related the Manner of drawing up the Regiment in the Abbey-Clofe at the Election of the Sixteen Peer] For my Part I know no Good the Army has done in Britain, but making Roads thro' the Mountains of the Scots Highlands, which was performed by a Handful.' Colonel Handafyde took up Mr Erskine, as if what he Col. H had faid about the Regiment in the Abbey-Clofe had re flected 1734-35 Anno 8. Geo. 11. flected on him, whofe Regiment it was; and endeavour'd to shew that it was but an ordinary Meeting there, and that nothing could be meant by it, fince the Regiment march'd from Town at Mr Dundafs's Election: That he deferv'd Thanks, and not Blame, for his Conduct by the Gentlemen of that Country; but that fome wifh'd there had been Mobs and Tumults, and from their Difappointment proceeded their Complaints.' Mr Erskine. Sir James Camp beli caled to Or Brother the Earl of Mar's being concern'd in the Rebellion, Anno 1715. 6 Mr Erskine rifing up to reply, Sir James Campbell stood Sir J. Campbell. up likewise, and endeavour'd to fhew the Neceffity of Troops in the Highlands; Urging, That they ought to be continued though the Highlanders were, at prefent, moftly well affected; and gave for Inftance the Advantage of having Troops in Scotland in the Year 1715, when the Rebellion was rais'd and carried on by the Earl of Mar, Brother to the honourable Member who had spoke last against the Motion. Several Members, refenting this Expreffion as a Reflection on Mr Erskine, call'd out, To Order: Hereupon Mr Erskine ftood up again, and faid, That when he laft rofe up to fpeak, it could not be to answer the Member who had now spoke, [Sir James Campbell] for then he had faid nothing; and that he might for the fame Reafon pais by all that the worthy Gentleman had spoke fince.' Here Sir James Campbell got up again; but the Houfe would not allow him to interrupt: Then Mr Erskine went on, and said, That the honourable Gentleman, who spoke before, [meaning Colonel Handafyde] could not, on the leaft Reflection, imagine that any Thing faid was meant against him, who he had never, that he knew of, seen in his Life till now; and that the Colonel was not then in Scotland, and therefore could not be blam'd for any Thing done by his Regiment: That he blam'd not even his Officers prefent, not doubting but they had Orders: That this was not the Time to argue that important Matter and flagrant Encroachment on the British Liberties, which might come to be inquir'd into afterwards; yet the Account he had given of it was juft, notwithstanding the Answer: That the Regiment had been mufter'd, and in the Field but a Day or two before, and therefore the Meeting on that Day was not an ordinary one: That it could not be without a Design, and a bad one too: That on such a Day the three Companies at Leith were march'd to join thofe at Edinburgh, and kept altogether under Arms during the Election, and then march'd back to Leith: And that other Facts, equally or more grofs, could in due Time and Seafon, be made appear to fhew that it was done on a bad Deign: That their marching from Edinburgh at the Election for the County, proves only they were not in the Wrong at that Time, tho' they were prodigioufly wrong at the Election lection of the Peers: That the Accufation of wishing for Anno 8. Geo. II. Jobs and Tumults was injurious, and as weak as unjust: That it was meant against the Majority, what could they gain y it? And ftill lefs could the Minority reap any Advantage om it, except to put themselves in the Wrong, when they d no Reason to hope they would meet with Pardon and Fidulgence: That Mutiny was the ftale Pretence of those, ho wanted a Handle to opprefs by fuperior Power: That Mobbing, the Minority could only expect fuch Ruin to emfelves, as had befallen his Kinsman by the Rebellion, hich an honourable Member had, with so much Difcretion d Justice, objected to him: That the Objection was fo enely from the Purpose, he would pass it by unanfwer'd, Awell as the rest of what that honourable Gentleman had id, did not the high Nature of it require him to speak it: That he had fuffer'd more by it than any Man, except s deceas'd Friend and Relation, who was at the Head of : That his Principle and Conduct, with refpect to the prent Establishment, ever fince he enter'd on the World and finefs, had been uniform and firm in all Times and Situaons, as every Body knew, who knew him; and as the Obctor and his Friends had often acknowledg'd: And if now ́s greatest Enemies could bring an Inftance to the contrary, confented to have it reckon'd that he had always been Traitor: That, therefore, if the Occafion of flinging out is at him, and the Air with which it was done, had not ok'd fo unfavourably, he muft, in Juffice to the GentleCan who fpoke it, have thought he intended to do him onour; by fhewing his Loyalty to have been fo unconerable, that his nearest Relations, and with whom he had great Connection, could not fhake or diminish it.' 1734-35. Mr Charles Arefkine* ftood up next, and faid, That Mr Cha. Areskine, e Abbey and Parliament Close were so far diftant,† that e Regiment drawn up in the former could not over-awe e Election at the latter.' Then the Question being put on the Motion made by Feb. 17. Mr Walter Plumer mov'd, That the Postmaster *Solicitor General for Scotland. K The Distance is little more than Half a Mile. 5th Mr Plumer's Mo tion for laying be fore the Houfe the King's Warrant for permitting Let ters to pafs PoftFree. |