against Popery which shall be desired, so as bours; and that, the general peace of Europe the same extend not to the diminution of being once inade, there must needs be great his own prerogative, nor to alter the descent fleets and armies unemployed, and ready for of the crown in the right line, nor to defeat an occasion. And it is as visible that some of the succession. He hath refused the Petition our neighbours are so wasted by the war, that of the lords, who, during the interval of par- they are unable to give us any help, if we liament, desired to be brought to their trial; should stand in need of it. And when we and, after so long an imprisonment, might rea- consider withal the afflicted condition of the sonably enough have expected it: but his maj. Protestants abroad, we may be sure that every thought it fitter to reserve them to a more pub- calamity they suffer is in some measure a weaklic and conspicuous trial in parliament; for ening of the Protestant interest, and looks as which cause, their trial ought now to be has- if it were intended to make way for a genetened, for it is high time there should be some ral extirpation.-These dangers would not be period put to the imprisonment of the lords. so considerable as they are, if the present But that which the king hath been pleased to wants of the crown were not too well known. mention to you this morning surpasses all the The king doth not intend to press you at this rest, and is sufficient of itself alone to discharge time with the full consideration of them all; all those fears of Popish influences which many for, as the king cannot hope in any one sesgood men had too far entertained: for now, sion to do all that may be good for his people, you see, his maj. of his own accord hath done so neither doth he expect from them all that that which would have been very difficult for may be necessary for himself; but hopes the you to ask, and hath deprived himself of the good understanding between him and his peoconversation of his royal and only Brother, by ple shall be for ever maintained, by a perpecommanding him to depart the kingdom; to tual reciprocation of grace and favour on his which command his r. h. hath paid a most part, and duty and affection on yours.-That humble and most entire submission and obedi- which doth most press the king at present is, ence. This separation was attended with a the want of that treasure which he hath exmore than ordinary sorrow on both sides. But hausted by going as far as he could in the dishe that for your sakes could part with such a bauding of his Army; which is very much, but brother and such a friend, you may be sure, not fully done. The Charge of a great Fleet hath now no favourite but his people. Since, at sea, now ready to be paid off after a long therefore, his maj. hath shewn so much rea- service, and the necessity of setting out anodiness to concur with, and in a manner to pre- ther this summer; the defects of the Poll Bill, vent, the desires of his parliament, it is a mi- which fell short of that sum which was allowed serable refuge our enemies trust to, when they to be borrowed upon it, and by that means hope to see our zeal outrun our discretion, and hath deceived those who did furnish stores that we ourselves should become the unhappy upon the credit of that Act, unless you relieve occasion of making our own councils abortive. them; together with the continuation of some -Not only the care of the State, but the care additional Duties of Custom and Excise; and it we ought to have of the Church too, will pre- were much to be wished, that, since the Reveserve us from all errors of this kind: for, as nue at the best was always short of the necessary there neither is, nor hath been these 1500 years charge of the government, a way may be found a purer Church than ours, so it is for the sake to take off those Debts and Anticipations, and of this poor Church alone that the State hath to supply that Diminution of the Customs been so much disturbed: it is her truth and which makes it much narrower than it was.— peace, her decency and order, which they la- My Lords and Gentlemen; There are so many bour to undermine, and pursue with so restless things to do, and so little time to do them in, a malice; and, since they do so, it will be ne- that there ought not to be one minute lost. cessary for us to distinguish between Popish The season of the year is not yet so far adand other Recusants, between thein that would vanced, as to make it too late to set out a destroy the whole flock, and them that only Fleet this summer; for most of the Preparawander from it: and among the many good tions are ready, if we go about it with that dilaws you shall think fit to provide, it may not ligence which is requisite: and therefore it be amiss to think of some better remedy for doth infinitely import us all to husband time. regulating the press, from whence there daily-The best way of doing this will be, to avoid steal forth Popish Catechisms, Psalters, and Books of Controversy. And it may be another good fruit of such a law, to hinder schismatical and seditious Libels too; for certainly it were much better for us to make such laws as will prevent offences, rather than such as serve only to punish the offenders. From the dangers which we know at home, and have already in a great measure overcome, be pleased to carry your considerations abroad, and weigh the dangers which may come from thence. We all see and know the posture of our neighVOL. IV. all long and tedious consultations, which sometimes do as much harm as ill resolutions; and above all, to take heed of such questions and debates as tend to raise heat, or may create any kind of disturbance; nor does any thing in the world so much contribute to dispatch, as a quiet and orderly proceeding; for they who are in haste and attempt to do all their business at once, most commonly hinder themselves from bringing any thing to perfection. You have now an opportunity of doing great things for the king and kingdom, and it de4 A : serves your utmost care to make a right use Mr. Seymour chosen Speaker.] After most of it; for it is not in the power of a parlia- of the members had taken the oaths of Allegiment to recover a lost opportunity, or to re- ance and Supremacy before the lords commisstore themselves again to the same circum- sioners, in the inward court of wards, they stances, or the same condition, which they had chose Mr. Seymour, Speaker, with little or no once a power to have improved.-Would you contest, and he was led to the chair by sir Tho. secure Religion at home, and strengthen it Lee and Mr. Hampden. [He hung back, and from abroad, by uniting the interests of all acted his unwillingness very well t.] He then the Protestants in Europe? this is the time. spoke to the house to this effect: "No satisWould you let the Christian world see the faction could be greater to me than the honour king in a condition able to protect those who thus freely and unanimously to be called to shall adhere to him, or depend upon him? the chair and as you have been so obliging to this is the time. Would you extinguish all our me, so I will be careful that your favour tend Fears and Jealousies? Would you lay aside not to the prejudice of your service. My errors all private animosities, and give them up to are so many arguments to excuse me from this the quiet and repose of the public? This is employment, because I see so many persons the time. Would you lay the foundations of judgments fall into such mistakes as lead them a lasting peace, and secure the Church and into errors, by too favourable an opinion of State against all the future machinations of me. I have been master of much better health our Enemies? this is the time.-My Lords and than I now enjoy, so that I cannot attend your Gentlemen; the present face of things, and service as I ought. These considerations, I hope, the state wherein we now are, is so well known will induce you to proceed to another choice, and understood abroad, that the whole world that your service may be better performed. is in great expectation of those resolutions Dangers threaten religion and the state by the which shall be taken here. The results of this horrid Plot. Do not gratify your enemies by council seem to be decisive of the fate of stumbling at the threshold, in your choice of these kingdoms for many ages; and are like me. But since you are pleased to sequester to determine us either to happiness or misery your judgments, in this choice, give me leave to of a very long duration. We use to say, and present my excuse to the king, and I hope the say truly, That the king, when seated in par- king will have no cause to disagree with you in liament, is then in the fulness of his majesty any thing but your choice of me." and power, and shines forth with the brightest lustre: let no exhalations from beneath darken or obscure it. Foreign nations say, and say truly, That a king of England, in conjunction with his parliament, is as great and dreadful a prince as any in Europe. Shew them the sight they are afraid of: and, since they have laid it down for a maxim in their politics, That England can never be destroyed but by itself, and that it is in vain to make any attempt upon this nation, until they be in some great disorder and confusion among themselves; make the ambitious despair betimes; and establish so perfect an intelligence between all the parts of this great body, that there may be but one heart and one soul among us. And let us all pray, That He who hath once more miraculously delivered the king, the church, and the state, would be pleased still to continue His divine protection, and give us thankful and obedient hearts. And when we have offered up those hearts to God, let us in the next place offer them again to the king, and lay them down at the footstool of His throne: that so the king may see himself safe in your councils, rich in your affections, victorious by your arms, and raised to such a height by your loyalty and courage, that you may have the honour of making him the greatest king, and he the glory of making you the happiest people. I have but one thing more in command; and that is to the gentlemen of the house of commons: That they proceed immediately to the choice of a Speaker; whom his maj, will expect to be presented to him here at three of the clock to morrow in the afternoon. The Speaker's Speech to the King.] March 7. The Speaker thus chosen, the commons went up to the lords bar to present him to his ma jesty, where Mr. Seymour spoke to this effect: May it please your majesty, the knights, citizens, and burgesses, in parliament assembled, in obedience to your majesty's command, have made choice of a Speaker, and have unanimous ly chosen me: and now I am come hither for your majesty's approbation, which if your majesty please to grant, I shall do them and you the best service I can." The Speaker rejected by the King.] The lord chancellor made this Answer: " Mr. Seymour, The approbation which is given by his majesty to the choice of a Speaker, would not be thought such a favour as it is and ought to be received, if his maj. were not at liberty to deny as well to grant it. It is an essential prerogative of the king to refuse, as well as approve of a Speaker. This is a matter which by mistake may be liable to misrepresentation, as if the king did dislike the persons that chose, or the person chosen. As to the first, there can be no doubt. They are old representatives of his people, whom he hath a desire to meet; and "Seymour and lord Danby had fallen into some quarrellings, both being very proud and violent in their tempers. Seymour, had in the last session, struck in with such heat against popery, that he was become popular upon it. So he managed the matter in this new parliament that, though the court named Meres, yet he was chosen Speaker." Burnet. † Grey. there can be no doubt of the latter; nor has | enemies to the nation, that, at this time, throw Debate thereon.] The commons then came back to their house; where Sir John Ernly said, I shall propose a gentleman of experience, and without exception, sir Thomas Meres. Mr. Sacheverell. I take it to be a great misfortune, that, after a house had made choice of a Speaker, the king, by any information, to | promote and carry on the designs of particular persons, should gratify them, rather than this house in their choice of Seymour. And I am the rather induced to believe it, because no exceptions have been made against Seymour in the Chancellor's Speech. But if it be proved that the king bas always granted, and never denied the choice, I suppose the thing will be given up. There is but one precedent of the king's denial, and that was in the case of Thorp. It is strange that this house must be made a second. I see many worthy faces that were not here the last parliament: and therefore I shall say, it is very hard, there having, for an 100 years together, never been so much as one excuse, made by a Speaker chosen by the commons, nor one allowance or disallowance made in parliament, that it should be so now. It was usually excused by compliment, and this parliament has complimented itself out of its right. But I would not lose a hair's breadth of the king's right, nor the subjects. They are Concerning this transaction Ferguson writes as follows: "There being a council that night, and notice coming that Mr. Seymour was chosen, the Treasurer persuaded the king from accepting him, to shew his prerogative right of rejecting; so that the next day, when the house came to present their Speaker, he was rejected; but the house having some intimation that he would be rejected, ordered him, or he himself resolved, not to make the common formal apology of insufficiency, at the lords bar, but instead thereof he roundly told the king, That he was unanimously chosen, by the suffrages of all the commons of England, to be their Speaker; and that he was resolved to serve his majesty in that station, to the utmost of his power.' So that the Chancellor, who had orders to accept of his excuses, now had not a word to say: at last, upon deliberating and whispering, he recollected himself, and told the house," &c. Growth of Popery, part ii. p. 235. Mr. Williams. This is now a question of right. I am sorry that our time, at the beginning of a session, should be thus lost, by the starting this question. Here is a worthy per son named, sir Tho. Meres, and we named and presented to the king a worthy one too. The commons have been without a Speaker, nor was their having a Speaker originally from the crown, but by the emmons. Till Hen. iv's time, not one precedent of presenting a Speaker, &c. The chancellor tells us, 'That the king's favour may not turn to his prejudice, &c.' This being put to a question of right, we must stand upon our right. There is no reason from the electors or the elected, why he should be rejected; therefore I adhere to Mr. Seymour, Sir Tho. Clarges. I desire to inform the house, because there are a great many new members that were not of the last parliament; that we have power of adjourning ourselves by the clerk. In time of sickness of the Speaker, it has been done from day to day. Gentlemen, our lives and liberties are preserved by this house, and the privileges of it are inheritable to us. I must inform you, that Mr. Seymour attended the king yesterday, and be acquainted his majesty with the unanimous choice of him to be the Speaker, and that he hoped to have the king's good liking.' The king said, he liked very well the choice.' If so, this alteration of the king's mind must be from evil-disposed people about the king, who would create discontent between the king and his people. The king said once, 'he would have no favourites but the commons of England.' If you will not think fit to cause Mr. Seymour to declare what the king said to him, I acquiesce. But I move that you will adjourn. Mr. Gurroway. I am one that have sat here long, and have seen great miscarriages, prorogations, and dissolutions. I am not afraid of it now, and I hope no man else here is afraid of it. I would not give the king offence, but not part with one hair of our right. If you will not stand to it here you will have a great many things put upon you. I am satisfied that we could not fix upon a fitter person for Speaker than Mr. Seymour; he is a privy counsellor, treasurer of the navy, and has done the king very good service here, which makes me wonder he should not be approved of by the king. I thought we could not have obliged the king more. The king said, he would have no favourite but his people.' And thus to have your Speaker rejected, what will you think of it! Pray, gentlemen, let us sleep upon and consult our own hearts what is fit to be done. Then the Clerk put the Question for adjourning. it, and let the clerk put the question for adjourning till to-morrow. Sir Tho. Lee. I see it is the universal opinion to adjourn, therefore I shall say but a little. Before the prorogation, information was given the house of the danger of the king's person, and the house addressed the king, to have a care of his person, &c.' The Answer was, the king was then busy, but we should have an account of our Message;' but for 3 weeks we heard nothing, and we were prorogued. I take notice only how things grow by degrees. We came up to this parliament with great joy, and expectation of doing good, and now we are thus interrupted! This being our condition, and we having precedents plain in the case for us, I would adjourn till to-morrow, and then make a Representation of the thing to the king. Col. Birch. I am heartily sorry this has happened. This is an unlucky stumble at the threshold, before we get into the house. I came hither with an intention (God is my witness) to make this a healing parliament.' I have always heard here, that it is the undoubted right of this house to chuse their Speaker, &c. I have reason to believe Mr. Seymour very proper for the employment, and that he would be acceptable to his majesty; but he that did this with the king may do more. I would adjourn till to-morrow, and make a Representation of our right to the king. March 8. Sir Tho. Lee. It is now 11 of the clock, and it is necessary we propose what to do before the black rod comes; whether you will do something previous; whether you will acquaint the king what we suffer for want of a Speaker; or whether you will propose somebody to say something at the lords bar to the king? I move you to consider which you will do. Sir Harbottle Grimstone. I second that gentleman. Some of the Long Robe, I believe, have taken pains to search for prece dents. My eyes are not good, and I am infirm, and not able to search. But thus much I shall say to the rational part. The question is, Whether the king's approbation of a Speaker is the substance and essence of the matter? For my part I never took it to be so. When you wait upon the king with your Speaker, he is your Speaker so soon as you have chosen him, and you may lay the mace upon the table. When you go up with the Speaker to the lords house, you go up to tell the king that, according to his direction, you have chosen a Speak er. It has been a thing of course to give the king notice of the person you have chosen, that he may know him; and we stand by, and give the Speaker leave modestly to deny, and exercise his oratory. If the king's approbation Mr. Powle. This gives me apprehension must be the essence of your choice, if you part that there is some person too near the king, with this, you part with all. Shall we not who is afraid of this parliament. I have ob- have the liberty to chuse our own servant, fit served that, of late, those things of the greatest to do our own work? Other people would demoment are done without any council at all; stroy our work, if we part with that which must done in a corner. As for the prorogation and enable us to do the work of them that trusted the dissolution of the last parliament, there was us and sent us hither. If any one man may not one word of the advice of the privy coun- be imposed upon us, who will not do our work, cil in it. I fear no advice was asked, but given it may be he will put what question he pleases, for supporting the designs of private men. I and tire you out. This I have seen done. I have ever taken the record to be, that no man would ask any man, who has influence upon was ever refused being Speaker when present- this action, now we have chosen a Speaker, ed to the king, but for some disability of body; that he should be refused? Whoever broke as in sir John Popham's case, who desired to the last parliament, without the desire of this be excused from that service by reason of dis- house, or the advice of the privy council, that ability of body from wounds he had received man or men, that broke that parliament, will in the wars, 28 Hen. vi. And lately sir Job break this too, to the utter undoing of the naCharlton, not being able to endure the em- tion. Our time is short, if you please to think ployment, by reason of disability of body. But of it. If Seymour be not in the lords house (as nothing of this can be objected against Mr. it is said he is) or if he be in the country; if Seymour. Must any private person inform the the person be in the country and not here, that king of his unfitness, without any cause assign- we shall choose, then let us set up another to ed? I know not what may come of it. Cor rule for him till he comes, as in the absence of a ruption, in the former parliament, was com- knight of the shire that is chosen. Mr. Seyplained of for private malice, but I doubt not mour is a person of great experience for the but gentlemen come to this with clear thoughts. place, and he is the fittest to go on where you I do protest before God, that I think the great-left off; but he being not here, let somebody ness of the nation is under the privileges of this house. A people can never heartily support that government that does not protect them. A slavish people can never heartily support the government. Those that come after us, here, if we are dissolved upon this point, will speak the same language. I fear not dissolution. Let us adjourn till to-morrow, sit in his chair to represent his person, till he comes. And then we will offer our Reasons to the king, why we cannot recede from our first election. Sir Tho. Clarges. I was glad yesterday to find that moderation in this great matter. Though we were then satisfied in our right, yet, by this night's consideration, gentlemen have looked over precedents. But though one of the long robe be more proper for Speaker, yet there are precedents of others that have been in that place. I find anciently that the commons have chosen their Speaker without presenting him to the king for approbation. Some have made excuses to the king, and some none (1 Hen. iv.) and 7 Hen. viii. he was presented before the ordinary privileges were asked. But it is notorious that all these things were our birthrights before. But if this argument be used against our right, because, in respect to the king, we make a formality of the king's approbation, all our rights will fall with that. This matter before us is that which all the commons of England have a right to, and I hope we shall not impair those rights that they have entrusted to us. R. ii. sir John Cheyney was chosen Speaker, and went up to the king, &c. to be confirmed. The next day he fell sick, and desired the house to chuse another, and they chose Dorwood, and notified it to the king that they had chosen him. Popham was chosen 28 Hen. vi. (a troublesome time.) He was sick and unable to perform the office, and the commons had leave granted to chuse another. But there are upon record many Speakers that have been chosen, and were ready to serve, without making any excuse. It is a strange thing that we should hear nothing of this for 200 years, and now the kingdom is in danger, that this parliament should have an interruption. I hope that in the consideration of this matter, we shall take such steps as are worthy of the great trust reposed in us. privy counsellors may carry the Message. I was one, but I am not now. I hope you will dispense with me. There are none of the council here now, but I suppose they will be here. Mr. Sacheverell. If you stay for the privy counsellors, the black rod will come to call you up. We have sent those to attend the king formerly who were no privy counsellors, and I would have Carr for one now. Mr. Leveson Gower. I would know, whether ever the house made an Address to the king when they had no Speaker? I would have Sacheverell inform the house, whether there be any precedent of that. Sir W. Portman. There is no precedent of a Speaker presented to the king by the house, that has been rejected: and let us make a precedent of addressing the king without a Speaker. Mr. Leveson Gower. I would have any man cite a precedent, whether ever any Address was made to the king without a Speaker? [He spoke it roughly, and several younger gentlemen called aloud, To the Bar.'] Mr. Vaughan. Something must be done; and in this case we must create a precedent prime impressionis. Was there ever any precedent that so many met together and did nothing? It is fit to make a precedent, when such a body of men are met together, and do nothing. I move you to make an Address to. the king. Sir Eliab Harvey. Our time is but short, and pray let us not mispend it. I will name another to go to the king with Carr, lord Russel. Sir Christ. Musgrave. I conceive your proper question is, Whether an Address shall be made to the king for some longer time, &c.? And when that is over, then you are to nominate persons to attend the king; and I shall name a third. Mr. Powle. I would have the question be, That an application shall be made to the king that the matter delivered by the Lord Chancellor yesterday is of such great importance relating to the Speaker, that we desire some time to consider of it.' Mr. Sacheverell. This matter is of great importance, and therefore we ought to take wary steps in it to the king, that those who advised him to this, may have no colour against us. The first question stands thus, Whether a Speaker chosen stands good to the service of the house, before he has the king's approbation?' The second question is, 'If the king can reject a Speaker, chosen by the house, and qualified? If that be so, there is an end of your business. Ist James, after sir R. Philips was chosen Speaker by the commons, he sent out warrants for writs, as Speaker, without the The Commons apply to the King.] The Mesking's approbation of him; and I can tell many sage was this: "That the matter delivered by more precedents. But perhaps we may have the Lord Chancellor yesterday is of such great papers pinned upon our backs, as the former importance, that this house cannot immediately parliament had, and be sent home. I move, come to a Resolution therein; therefore do that we may have some persons nominated, of humbly desire that his majesty would graciously eminence about the king (though not privy be pleased to grant some farther time to take counsellors, for they have not the sole privi- the matter into consideration." — Ordered, lege of carrying our Messages) humbly to ac- "That lord Russel, lord Cavendish, sir Henry quaint the king, That the matter delivered by Capel, and sir Rob. Carr, do attend his mamy Lord Chancellor, in his name, is of so great jesty with this Message." importance, that we desire some farther time to consider of it.' And then, no doubt, but we shall acquaint ourselves as we ought to do. I move that sir Robert Carr, the Chancellor of the Duchy, may go with the Message; and I doubt not but we shall make out our rights with all duty to the king. Sir R. Curr. I humbly move you, that the The King's Answer.] Being returned, Lord Russel, reported, That, according to com mand, they have attended the king, and his majesty was pleased to make this Answer to the Message, viz. "I have considered your message, and do consent to a farther time for you to consider, till Tuesday next: and as I would not have my prerogative encroached |