law; and then, how far will our interests lead us to it, or rather, a greater word, our obligation!

Mr. Swynfin. It was never thought that the law for Conventicles extended to any other persons than such as were out of all communion with us in doctrine, and hold no salvation in our church: it was never till now construed a Conventicle, the Dissenters being a people in communion with us in doctrine, though different in ceremonies.

Sir Ch. Wheeler. Condescension is as wide as the ocean tender conscience is primitia gratiæ, which, when the devil has done with, he puts a man upon spiritual pride.

Mr.Vaughan. To the one kind of Dissenters, would have the Bill of Conventicles gone on with; for the inconvenience is as great from many others, as from the Dissenters mentioned.

Mr. Coventry. If a bill be brought in, he would not have it countenance the taking away the oath about the Covenant; and he that brings it in, at his peril: but yet would have an oath to alter nothing either in Church or State -by way of tacit consent, not by order of the house, to bring in such a bill.

The question being propounded, That his majesty be desired to send for such persons as he should think fit, to make Proposals to him, in order to the uniting of his Protestant Subjects, it passed in the Negative, 176 to 70.

Debate on the Bill for suppressing Seditious Conventicles.] April 28. An ingrossed Bill, for continuance of a former Act, to prevent and suppress Seditious Conventicles, was read. Mr. Secretary Morrice. The fire of zeal for suppression of Conventicles may be so hot, that it may burn those that cast them in, as well as those that are cast in.

Mr. Waller. School divines cannot unite them with us: we have united them; what? against both State and Church-make the fire in the chimney, and not in the middle of the room-let the zeal be in the Church-we have seen the fruits of this formerly: let them alone, and they will preach one against another: by this bill they will incorporate, as being all under one calamity.

which discourse gave great offence, and he narrowly escaped calling to the bar; but at length was permitted to explain, which he did, expressing much trouble for the offence he had given the house, and that he had no ill meaning in what he had said.'

Mr. Vaughan. The statute of queen Eliz. has given liberty to the lords to sit in parliament, without test of their religion; the commons not therefore, if a man should say, the lords would not pass the Bill with the proviso of the Papists, because a great party amongst them are so, it is no reflection upon the lords: it would be otherwise to the commons, they having a test upon them.-The Bill was then passed, 144 to 78.

Great Misunderstanding between the two Houses, in Skinner's Case.] About this time, a Difference happened between the lords and commons, occasioned by Mr. Skinner, a considerable merchant of London, who, having received great damages from the East-India Company, had brought the matter by Petition into the house of lords originally, by whom he was relieved in 5000l. cost. The commous hearing of this, after a debate, came to these Votes and Resolves on the 2d of May: 1. "That the lords taking cognizance of the matter set forth and contained in the Petition of Thomas Skinner, merchant, against the Governor and Company of Merchants trading to the East-Indies, concerning the taking away the petitioner's ship and goods, and assaulting his person, and their lordships over-ruling the plea of the said Governor and Company, the said cause coming before their house originally, only upon the Complaint of the said Skinner, being a Common-Plea, is not agreeable to the law of the land; and tending to deprive the subject of his right, ease and benefit due to him by the said laws. 2. That the lords taking cognizance of the right and title of the island in the Petition mentioned, and giving damages thereupon against the said Governor and Company, is not warranted by the laws of this king

"The case was this: Skinner, the plaintiff, was a considerable merchant of London; the defendants were the East India Company, and, Mr. Vaughan. To be against this bill, is to in their right, sir Samuel Barnardiston, as their cure a disease by doing things against it. governor. The matter of complaint was, That Though this be but an adjournment, yet there the said Company had seized a ship and cargo may be reasons why we shall not meet again; of Skinner's, and assaulted his person. Skinner, therefore this may be a sufficient reason for instead of commencing his suit in Westminsterpassing it. Liberty has been given for any hall, has recourse at once to the house of lords, man to bring in a bill for union; no such who give him a hearing, and allot him 5000l. thing has been done. In my own judgment, damages. Sir Samuel and the Company, on am for indulging the people; the harm is not the other hand, knowing no balance for the to be feared from the people: but if persons power of one house, but that of the other, apmust be suffered to subvert the laws by sedi-peal to the commons, who vote Skinner's Comtious teaching, judge the consequence, and prevent it, by passing the bill at this time.

I

Some words fell from Sir Trevor Williams to this effect, That if the Proviso, concerning making the Roman Catholics part of this Bill of Conventicles, be not admitted of, he desires liberty to bring in a Bill to tolerate Popery;'

plaint, and the lords proceedings thereon, illegal. The lords did the same by the Company's Appeal. The commons order Skinner into the custody of the Serjeant at Arms; and the lords did the same by sir Samuel, as likewise sir Andrew Riccard, Mr. Rowl. Gwynn, and Mr. Christopher Boone." Ralph.

dom. 3. That the said Tho. Skinner, in com- | mencing and prosecuting a suit by Petition in the house of lords against the Company of Merchants trading to the East-Indies (wherein several members of this house are parties concerned with the said Company, in particular interests and estates) and in procuring judgment therein, with directions to be served upon the Governor, being a member of this house; or upon the Deputy-Governor of the said Company, is a Breach of the Privilege of this house." In conclusion, they ordered the said Mr. Skinner, for so acting, to be taken into custody of the serjeant at arms.

Votes of the Commons upon it.] The EastIndia Company having petitioned the commons, as well as Mr. Skinner the lords, the commons after their three Votes, further resolved, "That the Petition of the Merchants trading to the East-Indies, and the two first Votes of this house now passed, relating to the jurisdiction of the lords, be delivered by a Message to the lords' bar, with reasons for enforcing the said Votes."

The Duke of Buckingham's Speech thereupon, at a Conference with the Commons.] This occasioned two or three Conferences with the peers; in one of which,

Nay, these very commons, which turned the lords out of this house, though they took from them many other of their Privileges, yet left the constant practice of this till the very last day of their sitting; and this will be made appear by several precedents these noble lords will lay before you, much better than I can pretend to do.-Since this business has been in agitation, their lordships have been a little more curious than ordinary, to inform themselves of the true nature of these matters now in question before us; which I shall endeavour to explain to you as far as my small ability, and my aversion to hard words, will give me leave: for howsoever the law, to make it a mystery and a trade, may be wrapt up in terms of art, yet it is founded in reason and is obvious to common sense.-The power of Judicature does naturally descend, and not ascend; that is, no inferior court can have any power which is not derived to it from some power above it. The king is by the laws of this land, supreme judge in all causes ecclesiastical and civil. And so there is no court, high or low, can act but in subordination to him; and though they do not all issue out their writs in the king's name, yet they can issue out none but by virThe duke of Buckingham delivered the fol- tue of some power they have received from lowing speech:—“ :-" Gentlemen of the house of him. Now every particular court has such commons; I am commanded by the house of particular power as the king has given it, peers, to open to you the matter of this Con- and for that reason has its bounds: But the ference; which is a task I could wish their highest court in which the king can possibly lordships had been pleased to lay upon any sit, that is, his supreme court of lords in parbody else, both for their own sakes and mine: liament, has in it all his judicial power, and having observed, in that little experience I consequently no bounds, I mean no bounds have made in the world, there can be nothing of jurisdiction; for the highest court is to goof greater difficulty, than to unite men in their vern according to the laws as well as the lowopinions, whose interests seem to disagree. est. I suppose none will make a question, but This, gentlemen, I fear is at present our case; that every man and every cause is to be tried but yet I hope when we have a little better according to Magna Charta; that is, by his considered of it, we shall find that a greater in- peers, or according to the laws of the land. terest does oblige us, at this time, rather to And he that is tried by the Ecclesiastical join in the preservation of both our Privileges, Courts, the Court of Admiralty, or the high than to differ about the violation of either. Court of Lords in parliament, is tried as much We acknowledge it is our interest to defend by the laws of the land, as he that is tried the right of the commons, for should we suffer by the King's-Bench, or Common-Pleas. When them to be oppressed, it would not be long these inferior courts happen to wrangle among before it might come to be our own case; and themselves, which they must often do by reaI humbly conceive it will also appear to be the son of their being bound up to particular interest of the commons to uphold the privi- causes, and their having all equally and earlege of the lords, that so we may be in a con-nestly a desire to try all causes themselves, dition to stand by and support them.-All that their lordships desire of you upon this occasion, is, That you will proceed with them as usually friends do, when they are in dispute one with another; that you will not be impatient of hearing arguments urged against your opinions, but examine the weight of what is said, and then impartially consider which of us two are the likeliest to be in the wrong.If we are in the wrong, we and our predecessors have been so for these many hundreds of years, and not only our predecessors, but yours too: this being the first time that ever an Appeal was made, in point of Judicature, from the lords house to the house of commons.

then the supreme court is forced to hear their complaints, because there is no other way of deciding them. And this, under favour, is an original cause of courts though not of men. Now, these original causes of courts, must also of necessity induce men, for saving of charges, and dispatch sake, to bring their causes originally before the supreme court. But then the court is not obliged to receive them, but proceeds by rules of prudence, in either retaining or dismissing them as they think fit. This is, under favour, the sum of all that your precedents can show us, which is nothing but what we practise every day; that is, that very often, because we would not be

ment there, as produced the following new Votes and Resolves; as, 1. "That the Petition of the East India Company to this house, touching the proceedings of the house of lords, in the case of Tho. Skinner, is not scandalous. 2. That the delivery of the said Petition of the East-India Company to the house, and the entertainment thereof, and the Proceedings and Votes of this house thereupon, was no Breach of the Privilege or encroachment upon the Jurisdiction of the h. of lords; but very proper and fit for this house, without breach of the fair correspondence, which ought to be between the two houses. 3. That a Message be sent to the lords to acquaint them, That this house doth take notice of the desire of the lords at the last Conference, for a good union to be kept between both houses: And it is the opinion of this house, that the best expedient to preserve such an union is, That all proceedings he forborn upon the Sentence and Judgment of the lords in the case of Tho. Skinner against the East India Company; and that sir Andrew Riccard, sir Samuel Barnardiston, Mr. Rowland Gwyn, and Mr. Christ. Boone be set at liberty; this house being unsatisfied with their lordships Reasons offered at the last Conference." Last of all, after a long debate, they resolved, “That whosoever shail be aiding or assisting in putting in execution the Order or Sentence of the house of lords, in the case of Tho. Skinner against the East-India Company, shall be deemed a betrayer of the rights and liberties of the commons of England, and an infringer of the privileges of this house."*

molested with hearing too many particular causes, we refer then back to other courts; and all the argument you can possibly draw from this, will not, in any kind, lessen our power, but only show an unwillingness we have to trouble ourselves often with matters of this nature. Nor will this appear strange, if you consider the constitution of our house, it being made up partly of such whose employments will not give them leisure to attend the hearing of private causes, and entirely of those that can receive no profit by it. And the truth is, the dispute at present is not between the house of lords and the house of commons, but between us, and Westminster-Hall. For as we desire to have few or no causes brought before us, because we get nothing by them, so they desire to have all causes brought before them for a reason a little of the contrary nature. For this very reason, it is their business to invent new ways of drawing causes to their courts, which ought not to be pleaded there. As for example, this very cause of Skinner that is now before us (and I do not speak this by rote, for I have the opinion of a reverend judge in the case, who informed us of it the other day in the house) they have no way of bringing this cause into Westminster-Hall but by this form; the reason and sense of which I leave you to judge of. The form is this, that instead of speaking as we ordinary men do that have no art, that Mr. Skinner lost a ship in the EastIndies: to bring this into their courts, they must say, that Mr. Skinner lost a ship in the East-Indies, in the parish of Islington, in the County of Middlesex. Now some of us lords, that did not understand the refinedness of this style, began to examine what the reasons of this should be; and so we found, that, since they ought not by right to try such causes, they are resolved to make bold, not only with our privileges, but the very sense and language of the whole nation. This I thought fit to "My lords and gentlemen; I came hither mention, only to let you see that this whole purposely to pass some Acts which are now cause, as well as many others, could not be ready, and to thank you for the Supply you tried properly in any place but at our bar; have now given me; which I hope will be sufexcept Mr. Skinner would have taken a fancy ficient, our neighbours being now agreed upon to try the right of jurisdictions between West-articles of peace. I cannot chuse but take minster-Hall and the Court of Admiralty, instead of seeking relief for the injuries he had received, in the place only where it was to be given him. One thing I hear is much insisted upon, which is the trial without juries: to which I could answer, that such trials are allowed of in the chancery and other courts, and that when there is occasion for them we make use of juries too, both by directing them in the King's-Bench, and having them brought up to our bar. But I shall only crave leave to put you in mind, that if you do not allow us in some cases to try without juries, you will then absolutely take away the use of Impeachments, which I humbly conceive you will not think proper to have done at this time."

|

The King's Speech, at the Adjournment.] May 8. They had no sooner finished this Vote, but the king, by the usher of the black-rod, sent for them to the house of peers, where, after passing several Acts, his majesty made a short Speech as follows:

notice of what I hear abroad, of some differences between both houses, touching the East India Company. I am as sensible of the privileges of the h. of peers (wherein I am concerned) as I am of the liberty of the h. of commons. But I hope, in this recess, there may be some means found out for an accommodation therein. I am willing you should adjourn to the 11th of Aug. next; and if there be no pressing occasion of your meeting then, I will give you timely notice by proclamation."

On the 11th of Aug. both houses adjourned

* ، These proceedings, in regard to Skinner and the East India Company, occasioned a remarkable quarrel between the two houses; In the close of this Conference, the lords and, in order to reconcile them, the king redeclaring the Company's Petition to the other commended to them to strike out all proceedhouse scandalous, &c. this raised such a fer-ings relating thereto from their journals." Grey.

to the 10th of Nov. On the 10th of Nov. they again met, and adjourned to the 1st of March 1668-9. Upon which day they met and were prorogued by his majesty to the 19th of Oct. 1669.

New Regulation of the Civil List.] The duke of Buckingham, says Mr. Ralph,* was now as much out of love with the parliament, as his royal master. In order, therefore, that their meeting might be deferred the longer, the Civil List was put under a new Regulation according to the following thrifty Scheme: "At the Court of Whitehall 22d July, 1668, present, the king's most excellent majesty, h. r. h. d. of York, lord abp. of Canterbury, lord privy seal, d. of Buckingham, d. of Albemarle, d. of Dorchester, lord chamberlain, c. of Anglesey, e. of Bath, e. of Craven, e. of Carlisle, e. of Lauderdale, e. of Carbery, e. of Orrery, lord Holles, Mr. Treasurer, Mr. Vicechamberlain, Mr. Sec. Morrice, sir John Duncombe. Upon reading this day at the Board the annexed Report of the right hon. the lords appointed to consider of the several branches of his majesty's Expences and Issues, and what proportions of each may best and most conveniently be retrenched and spared for the future; his maj. taking the same into consideration, and well approving thereof, did order that the right hon. the lords commissioners of the Treasury be, and they are hereby, authorized and required to cause all the particulars of the said Report to be put in execution." The King's Revenue.

Customs
Excise -
Chimney-Money
Small Branches

Proposal for the Retrenchment of the Expence within the Revenue.

Office of the Ordinance, ordinary and extraordinary

Queen-Consort

Embassadors, Agents, &c.

Courts of Ludlow, and Masters of

Queen-Mother

Foreign Embassadors

The Twelve Judges

"The remain of 33,5251. to be employed (after all the ordinary Charge before-mentioned, with interest and deduction, in manner and order following, as his maj. shall direct) for the payment of pensions: 1. To those who had a hand in the King's Escape from Worcester, &c. 2. To the Coldstreamers. 3. To those who have Pensions or Salaries for present service. 4. To those who have Grants, on valuable consideration. 5. For past-services. 6. For Grants, on mere grace.

£ 400,000 340,000 All Pensions and Payments hereafter shall 170,000 be removed from other funds or branches of 120,000 the Revenue, and made payable only in the exchequer, that the king may have the view of 1,030,000 his whole Expence in one place.-A new Establishment to be made of the Expence of the Houshold, in one book.-The Impost of Am200,000 bassadors from Michaelmas 1668, to be as in 182,000 the time of his late maj. Ch. I.-The Papers 55,500 to be looked out, and new orders to be settled 90,000 for the establishing and clothing the Yeomen 8,000 of the Guard.-All that by office or otherwise 12,000 have houses or lodgings of the king's out of the 4,000 court, or his houses of residence, to be obliged 20,000 to keep them, at their own charge, in repair; 16,000 and the surveyor is to look to it."*

Rules for regulating of the Revenue, and easing of the Charge.

5,000 The court itself, likewise, in this long in2,000 terval, underwent some alterations. Sir Tho. Clifford was made treasurer of the houshold, 30,000 in the room of lord Fitzharding deceased, being 23,000 succeeded by lord Newport, as comptroller, 40,000 and sir John Trevor, secretary of state in the 20,000 room of sir Wm. Morrice, who had a donative 10,000 of 10,000l. to dispose him to resign. † 12,000 EIGHTH SESSION OF THE SECOND PARLIAMENT. 2,500 The King's Speech on opening the Session.] 1,200 Oct. 19, 1669. This day the parliament met, 2,000 after a long recess of one year, five months and