Sir John Birkenhead. Never was it an exception against any man before in your chair, that he was a privy counsellor; if any precedent can be of it, then turn me out of the house: the making him Speaker, is the king's and your joint act: if any complaint be against you, answer it, but for causa inaudita, it was never heard of: it is clear that the first Speaker, Hungerford, was of the privy council, and he was ex concilio Domini Regis: Froisard, the Historian, was another, no gown-man: sir Tho. Gargrave, of the queen's honourable council [many may say of the Council of the North] a Speaker, in Henry vijith's time, and a great instrument of the Reformation; this will reflect upon the king's making you a privy counsellor: never any Speaker quitted the chair upon that account. the king holds himself in honour and conscience Sir Joseph Tredenham. Former ages have obliged to see them satisfied: besides you all known none more fit for Speakers than privy know, how many widows, orphans, and par- counsellors: sir John Bushell, who was favourticular persons, the public calamity hath over-ite to Rd. ii. was Speaker of all the parliataken, and how hard it is that so dispropor-ments in his time: sir Tho More, in 14 Hen. tionable a burden should fall upon them, even viii. In 4 Mary, Cordell, a privy counsellor : to their utter ruin. The whole case is so well has it ever been objected that a privy counand generally known, that I need say no more: sellor cannot be a parliament-man? We have your great wisdoms hath not done it at the often made use of privy counsellors to send first, peradventure, that the trade of Bankers messages by to the king: the eyes of all the might be suppressed, which end is now attain- kingdom are upon our actions; it is a mark of ed; so that now your great goodness may the king's favour, that you are in the chair: restore to those poor people, and the many iu- would have it referred to a committee, but not nocent ones that are concerned with them, you to quit the chair, that being a yielding of some life and assurance of payment in a comthe question. petent time. My Lords and Gentlemen; I have no more in command; and therefore shall conclude, with my own hearty prayers, that this session may equal, nay exceed, the honour of the last; that it may perfect what the last begun for the safety of the king and kingdom; that it may be ever famous for having establised upon a durable foundation our religion, laws and properties; that we may not be tossed with boisterous winds, nor overtaken by a sudden dead calm; but that a fair gale may carry you, in a steady, even, and resolved way, into the ports of wisdom and security." Debate concerning the Speaker.] Oct. 27. Sir Tho. Littleton. Many exceptions were taken against your service, when you was last called to the chair: excepts that you are a privy counsellor; hardly a precedent, at least not since the Reformation: Speakers, in queen Mary's time, were chosen for the re-establishment of the Roman religion: you might be made a privy counsellor afterwards, as a reward of your service, but not whilst you are Speaker: other offices you hold inconsistent with that chair, and have admittance to the most secret councils, and how improper is that, we having no man to present our Grievances but you! You are too big for that Chair, and for us; and you, that are one of the governors of the world, to be our servant, is incongruous: and as Carteret, treasurer of the navy, in that place which you hold, took up the main business of a session; by way of supposition, if that should happen again, were it proper for you to be in the chair? For who then will be so much concerned?-Moves for a Speaker, pro tempore, and it is very incongruous you should sit when so immediately concerned. Sir Tho. Clarges thinks what has been said so rational, that he cannot think that any man can be against it: we entrust you with all our secrets; and in your predecessors times, no Speaker had liberty to go to court, without leave: it is the Order, that when any reflection is upon a member, he stands up and speaks his defence, and retires,' and would have it so now. Sir Wm. Portman. What we say here can be no secret among 400 men; persons in the Hall know what we do: craves leave, that some precedents, out of Hackwell's book, of Speakers being privy counsellors, may be read. Mr. Powle is not envious at your promotion, but thinks it an improper thing for you to be in the chair, and both inconvenient to the king and this house; the king's welfare consists in the freedom of this house. When you a privy counsellor, and so near the king, your frowns may be a terror to any man that shall speak how the council have misled the king, and given him counsel to overtop us; you are a public accomptant of the king's revenue, and vast sums must go through your hands, and can we make complaint to you of your own misdemeanors? Or take measures from any person but from the intention of this house? Believes that the precedents will fail; at this time, most especially, would not have it; for, if allowed once, it may be always so by precedent: the precedent of the Speaker, in Rd. ii d's time, an ill one; that Speaker was a minion of the king, but no counsellor, as the Record says; he was greatly the occasion of the misfortunes of those times-1st and 2d of Philip and Mary, unprosperous times; in two parliaments they could do nothing; but when Highems was Speaker, the obedience to the Pope was confirmed: he was not sworn counsellor till ten months after, and Cordell was not counsellor till some time after. Mr. Wm. Harbord. You expose the honour of the house in resorting to Gaming-houses, with foreigners as well as Englishmen, and ill places; I take this to be a great misdemeanor: as for your being a privy counsellor, I think that no exception, but I am sorry to see the honour of the house exposed. I think you to be an unfit person to be Speaker, by your way of living. Col. Strangeways. What he has heard to day weighs not with him; exceptions against the Speaker, as a privy counsellor, will be a garbling the house: you are charged here for being a Gamester: wishes men were guilty of no greater crime: the judges may as well be excepted against. The Speaker rose up and complimented the house to this effect, "That he held no employment a greater honour to him than that which he had in their service," &c. The question being propounded, That Mr. Speaker do leave the Chair, and a Speaker, pro tempore, he appointed: The question being put, That that Question be now put; it passed in the negative. Debate on Sir Paul Neale's silting in the House.] Oct. 30. Mr. Sacheverell. Sees a person [sir Paul Neale] sit in the house, whom he knows not to be a Member; desires to know by what right he sits there? Sir Paul Neale proffered to speak, but was not suffered; " because if admitted to speak in his place, you allow him to be a member:" by divers he was called to the bar, and explained, "not as criminal, but only as not being allowed a member, as lord Bristol, lord chief justice Keeling, and others have been, not meinbers." Earl of Ogle. Desired to inform the house by what right sir Paul Neale sat there; viz. as being returned a burgess for Newark with Mr. Savile, by virtue of the king's charter granted to that borough. Mr. Sacheverell. He is informed that that charter has taken in many towns which were not in the former charter, to their great prejudice, and would have it considered. Sir Paul Neale did at last withdraw, and the thing was proceeded no farther in. The King's Answer to the Address against the Duke's Match.] Mr. Secretary Coventry delivered the following Message concerning the intended Marriage of the Duke with the Princess of Modena : "C. R. His majesty having received an Address from the house of commons presenting their humble desire, that the intended Marriage between his royal highness and the princess of Modena he not consummated, commandeth this Answer to be returned: That he perceiveth the h. of commons have wanted a full information of this matter, the marriage being not barely intended, but completed, according to the forms used amongst princes, and by his royal consent and authority: nor could he in the least suppose it disagreeable to his h. of commons, his highness having been, in the view of the world, for several months, engaged in a treaty of Marriage with another Catholic princess, and yet a parliament held during that time, and not the least exception taken at it." jesty, concerning the Match between his royal highness and the princess of Modena,” it passed in the affirmative, 184 to 88, and a committee was appointed to prepare an Address accordingly. Debate on the Test in the Popery Act.] Mr. Cheney, moved for declaring the opinion of the house about the Test, in the Act of Popery, how far it does reach to your own members. Mr. Garroway. Is against the form of the motion, though not against the matter: would have a Bill, that every member may take the Test here; and would have it go higher, into the lords house, that those that have a share in the law-making, should be of the same religion. Sir Rob. Howard. Without a thorough care, we shall be in a worse condition for Religion than before: the destiny of a beretic determines what they will do with us: would have have such a Test fitted for nothing but what the Papists may reject; it is necessary, that where any fountain is, it may be pure; and he would have the Protestant Religion pull up the very roots of Popery, wherever they grow; would have it reach all under the notion of Protestants, and be caculated for Popery only. Mr. Cheney thinks that his motion is well improved; he would have former laws for Popery inspected. Sir Nich. Carew thinks it will be too great a clogging the bill, but would have it so as to clear the house of lords, and the court, of Papists. Resolved, "That a Bill be prepared for a General Test, to distinguish between Protestants and Papists: and those that shall refuse to take it, be incapable to enjoy any office, military or civil; or to sit in either house of parliament; or to come within five miles of the court." Debate on refusing a Supply.] Oct. 31. Mr. Boscawen. In the king's Speech there is money? in the first place, and money' in the last; all money:' therefore would have it debated in a grand committee. Mr. Cheney. Has heard that the Dutch have some thoughts that we might come into the peace immediately; then there can be no necessity for money: moves, that if the Dutch do not, in some time, agree to an honourable peace, that we may supply the king: it is in vain to give money, if not applied to the purpose we intend it: before any thing of money be, moves that we may come to this vote, 'that if, in two months time, the Dutch come not to an honourable peace, we may assist his majesty as becomes us." Mr. Sacheverell has ever understood, that giving of money ought to be debated at a comunittee of the whole house, where we may lay open our grievances, which are very many, with the more freedom. Sir John Duncombe. It has not been usual to go into a committee, without directions from Upon the Question, "Whether an Address the whole house for Religion you have proshould be prepared to be presented to his ma-ceeded very prudently in: cannot but advise you to make peace at home; people will quiet their passions best with calming all at home, if men could be satisfied, and not afraid of their own good: would now go into this business of Religion that burns in every man's heart, and he sees every man's face full of it, and that is the beginning of the king's Speech. Sir Tho. Meres. There are Orders remaining upon your books, and practice: says, upon search of ancient orders, that the king's Speech was ever debated in a grand committee: agrees with Duncombe, if we may not be surprized with rash votes, that the house may rectify what surprize we may have upon us. Sir John Monson. In the French Gazette the Pope approves of the progress of the French arms; the last fight was, as if the English and Dutch had been the gladiators for the French spectators: if the prince had been well seconded, there had been an end of the war, and the Dutch must have begged a peace of us: we gave two millions to set out but part of a navy for a summer: what greater encouragement can be given to the Dutch? Our native commodities give no price; want of coals make us want fire, and floods have destroyed grass and hay: fire and water against us! We have want of people; many are sent away, and he will say nothing of the end for which they are sent; therefore moves against a Supply. Mr. Sec. Coventry. If the king had wasted his treasure for magnificent buildings, or palaces, would be against giving money; but if, for not paying some few taxes the nation may be lost, would have gentlemen consider of it: avers that the Dutch have not made any proposition, only a piece of one, for the Flag;' and if we will quit the king of France, they will then tell us more, and they are allied with the king of Spain, and Lorrain, and cannot agree without them.' You yourself, sir Cha. Harbord, have been obliged by the Hollanders; he has served there under them in their army, and honours the Orange family before any, next to that of his own prince, and loves the country; but consider they have provided a great fleet against the summer, and you will give no money, and so have no fleet; which way will you secure the plantations and Tangier? If you think they will give peace, it will be such a one then as to a people they contemn: if you come upon a vote of no money,' it will be as fatal as that of the Long Parliament, of no farther Addresses to the king." Were a man jealous of his wife, would he make her poor and naked, and force her to put herself into the arms of another man? Concludes this vote to be the most fatal blow you can give the nation. * A desperate engagement had happened with the Dutch, on the 11th of August, in which the brave sir Edw. Spragg lost his life; while the French remained quiet spectators, disobeying, or pretending not to understand, prince Rupert's orders. VOL. IV. Lord Cavendish. Here is money asked of us to carry on a war we were never advised about, and what we have given is turned to raising of families, and not paying the king's debts: there is so little fruit of the Addresses of the | last session, that we now find greater Grievances, as articles of war and martial law: the nation's interest is laid aside for private interest: supposes that what we gave the last session may be a sufficient Supply for the war, and moves for a negative against Money.' Col. Strangways. It is a sad condition we are reduced to, and who have reduced us to it is a secret not yet come to his knowledge,, and in due time may be considered: if you' shall pass negative votes, what advantage do you give your enemies in such a vote? Are, you sure you shall have peace? Would never have the king hold his crown of the king of France: desires we may not depend for our security either upon France or Holland: the Hollanders are a trading and a subtle people, and would have a fleet set out: he aims at this; begin with Grievances and your liberty: France has entangled us; the public articles are ill enough; what are then the private articles? We are to provide 60 ships, and the French 30: if the house does not assist the king, then the French come upon us for breach of articles: in a parliamentary way consider first 'Grievances,' and then Money.' The house of commons keeps the purse; and never put the question for Money,' before you know what you shall have for it: but is against a negative question. · Sir Tho. Lee. When you gave away so much money, then began the alliance with France, and no debts paid, though money given for it: the Dutch were not the aggressors in the last war, when we were weary of fighting alone; now the French are weary of us, and will fight alone; when we gave money for a fleet and had peace without it! Now we are the support of the crown of France, England may be as necessary to France as other countries, and so they may conquer us: the kingdom is ever safe when money is in our purses; we may have occasion to use it perhaps, to defend us against France: must we give 5 millions more to have what we might have had without it? Must money be given both in war and peace? Concurrent aids were never before heard of, money having been the foundation of our Grievances to raise a Standing Army; the marine regiments paid to this day; now, instead of five-pence, they take six-pence for their quarters: France once would invade us, and now is our friend. Still more men are raised; so many in a company are, indeed, disbanded, but the officers remain. This is your Standing Army, and it is Money still that maintains this army: 50 per cent. upon our goods in France, and yet the war with Holland upon account of trade: money for league, and no league, war and peace: moves to have the kingdom once free from taxes. Sir Rob. Howard is sorry to hear this ques2 Q thought that we are unable to raise the king money. Sir Wm. Coventry is as unwilling to give money for the maintenance of this alliance as any man, it being destructive both to trade and religion: what probability is there, if we beat the Hollander, that we shall get all trade? But it is industry and parsimony, and by underselling us: suppose we beat them, what think you they will be beaten hither? The last summer but one we beat them low enough, but with all the invitation that could be given them, few of them came hither; you may beat them into France, Sweden, or Denmark; any where but here: who will come to us, thus divided, as we are, in jealousies, and fears of Popery? He that knows least, has most fears: a stranger knows not what you have in your heart: we all know that we shall not stay if Popery pre tion moved for in the negative; this will utterly shiver all our hopes in this Vote: consider the arguments; to maintain an ill Alliance :' we have brought about the French alliance to us, whilst united to Holland, and both navies were against us: religion is not the case, but interest: if money be ill managed, any body may see it; he (as Secretary to the Treasury) will give an account of it, and ask no time to do it, registers being all in order; the money all gone out to public uses: you must have the nation poor if we have peace, if we give no money what will the Dutch say to this negative? Will you shake the king in it? You say the Papists have power; by this you give more way yet to have it; they have their counsels to give the king by such a Vote: we are going now to make a purchase, and before we get our religion and properties by this purchase, we throw away all by this vote: he must be avail: pray God they will let us go away alive, God that can say, there shall be no enemies, and we shall have peace;' and yet we do so by this negative: let not the word of king and people be lost now-Seek ye first the kingdom of Heaven,' settle Religion, and all things will be added:' Go in a parliamentary way for Grievances and Religion, and think of this vote last. Mr. Sacheverell. Is one of those that think giving of Money one of the greatest Grievances: it seems to him, that those villainous counsellors, that persuaded the king to make this war, have deceived him in this speech; do not they know of the unpaid taxes granted the last session, with the prizes and the customs? It seems to him like the first design: these gentlemen would have only a Bank, that they may carry on their design, and use you no more: he abhors it: it was said before, Give money, and Grievances shall be redressed: this army is so insolent, that they may turn you out of doors: if redress of Grievances be an argument for Money, you will never want Grievances:' will you not heighten France, by giving more money, and make him more friends, that he may at last have Dominion at Sea, which we now contend for? And, by this negative, we may deliver ourselves both from France and Rome. Sir Eliab Harvey. Giving of money now is certainly to ruin king and kingdom: give money, and you destroy the revenue of the nation, wool: you are letting the king of France be the merchant of the whole world: by falling out with Spain, we spoil the best trade we have: he has kept 100 men at work upon the woollen manufacture, and now cannot keep one will you set the woollen manufacture up in France? Lose the Straits trade, and you must land all your commodities at Marseilles, and bring them over land, and so France and Holland will out-trade you, by the great expence we must be at by inland carriage. : Mr. Bennet. Both at home and abroad people would be glad of this negative: he has much to do in the world, and knows the poverty of the nation; but would not have it considering the Inquisition! He has said enough to give reason for his negative for Money.' The Hollanders, in all reason, had better have no quarrels. But upon the king of France's account, if we leave him, his diff culties will increase: it is strange that we and Holland should be divided by one, whose interest is destructive to us both: when we go by ourselves, we may have a fair peace in all probability, going upon a pure national account: would not have it out of the house's power to assist the king: he is not so confident of the Hollanders good-nature in a peace, but doubts not, but upon Meney granted upon good grounds, we may be sure of a peace; yet for all this he is not for money. Sir Henry Capel.* If this war was for the maintenance of the crown and nation, would venture all he has, life and fortune, for it: he is descended from one that lost his life for maintaining of both: would know how we came into this war, before we give money to it is not for giving money for the war, but not for a negative no Money;' and doubts not but the king will redress our Grievances. : Sir Rob Carr moves to proceed in a parliamentary way: proceed to your Grievances,' (if you have any) and the king will give you redress. [Laughed at.] Lord Cornbury. Here is now a question proposed, and he agrees with Coventry's question: it will be wondered that he should be against money: some men have been under prejudice for giving votes, and that may possibly be a Grievance: all he has is from the king, and he would willingly give it again, if he calls for it; he has begged for the king, and wanted for him, and would willingly do so again: Carr says if there are any Grievances;' he wonders at it, when so many have been opened to you: the last tax could not be anticipated; *Second son of lord Capel, (who was beheaded for his loyalty to Charles I, in 16-18) and brother to the earl of Essex. He was created lord Capel, of Tewkesbury, in 1692, and died lord lieutenant of Ireland, in 1696. : our power, the king being engaged with a prince who has punctually observed articles: suppose us weary of the war, yet the king of France is actually engaged with us, and has remitted many articles that would have oblig besides the customs, excise, and the prizes: some cannot get their money due to them, glad to be content with half; those that have interest get all would vote, that Money be not considered till Grievances are redressed.' Mr. Garroway. Ruin of trade, loss of reli-ed the king to much expence the war we gion, no Grievance! Papists threaten us in the very lobby, to our faces; soldiers raising money; a war; the French king broke the Pyrenean league, conquered Lorrain, the king of Spain's country, en passant, and this a good Alliance! And now the question, whether money or no Money to maintain this League, and no enquiry made into what remains of what we have already given-Lands turned into our hands, (as it is his good fortune) and no Grievances neither! As to our sea war, the French give us money, and they come to see how we fight for it: one clapped up in the Bastile for fighting: where will there be an end of the French conquests? If any fleet be to be set out, we may do it time enough: moves, That till this tax be expired,' (which will be August first) we may give no Money;' and then, if occasion be, would give, but till then, would not. Sir John Hotham comes from a place so impoverished, [Beverly] that it is impossible to raise money there, and that place is much, impoverished by soldiers already; they quarter there in private houses, and one person was fined, because he would not render his house and bed to the soldiers: you have now an army, and it is grown a principle amongst them, (an ill nursery for young men) that parliaments are roots of rebellion, and Magna Charta sprung out of them: money is the way to continue these persons, and no money, to disband them; therefore is against money. Mr. Attorney Finch, is of opinion that there are grievances, and never expects such a healthful constitution in the body politic, that shall be so equally poised, as to be without them: not to give money' is at this time a grievance not to be redressed in many ages: this is an English war, and no other: they are not afraid, in Flanders, of the Protestant religion, because joined with a Protestant army: would treat this matter with more temperament; surely, for the honour of our prince, we must not treat crowned heads here, in alliance with us, as if they were our enemies: if we have but good trade, the Dutch presently make war with that prince, in alliance with us, that we may have no trade with their enemy; commends much the piety of this, but sees not the policy: you are now in war, and you carry the purse: supposing it such, and the alliance, as is said, yet in the condition we are in, it is absolutely necessary to support the war to the utmost of In the sea fight of the 11th of August, the French rear adiniral Martel, who was not in the secret, fought in earnest; for which, at his return to Paris, he was committed to the Bastile, and the relation of the battle, which he had prepared, was suppressed. cannot get out of with a prince loving his honour above his life; you may make it an unprosperous and a ruinous war, but you canuot make it cease to be a war; you may dishearten all the soldiers that are to go over, but if you make the chariot wheels drive heavily, yet they must drive on, if the king please to command it: if that war was now to be made, the discourse would be most seasonable; but now will be ruinous, and wiser men than he think so: the king may engage in a war, but when his people shall storm him out of it, the hour will come that his enemies wish for; for the Dutch will now be upon greater terms, having ever desired such a storm as the king could not allay: it is all one to the king whether his designs be checked at home or abroad: is this agrecable to this house, wherein there is scarce a man that has not bled for the crown? moves, that whatever is grievous, either in church or state, we may go upon, with all calmness and temper, and to do the king that honour (if with submission he may say it) that one day may be for Grievances,' and the other for Supply, hand in hand, that the world may see you neither neglect the king nor yourselves. Mr. Powle. We see priests daily admitted into the king's presence, and our Address (as he is informed) is but lately sent into Ireland: a Papist major general acting in disguise: has not one told you (sir James Smith) that he sat in a council of war when the military articles were agreed to? pressing against so many statutes, may reach your members, and the peers themselves: and this army has done nothing but the famous expedition from Blackheath to Yarmouth*: shall never think that privilege of parliament is not violated as long as a privy counseller sits in the Chair: members represented to the king in an ill sense for what they have said here: he that was the contriver of the Declaration, made lord privy seal, the third office in the kingdom, and another, as much concerned, made chief governor of Scotland: this is to bring in Popery in triumph : would be glad to see promises made in parliament, once kept in intermissions of parliament: he cannot go so far in the question proposed, as not to give any farther Supply till ten months; but at this time cannot give his consent to supply. *Part of the summer about 6000 troops were encamped at Yarmouth, under the command of count Schomberg; from whence it was understood that they might easily be wafted over to Zealand, as soon as the allied fleet had cleared the sea of the enemy." Ralph. Reflecting again on the Speaker. See the |