Sir, I have made it an object of care to inquire what is the condition of artisans in the midland districts; and I have here an account of the rate of wages paid, at present, in several towns in Litchfield, Coventry, Birmingham, and other places, to the following descriptions of workmen: carpenters, masons, bricklayers, plumbers, plasterers, and painters. I take Birmingham; in that town they are as follows:s. d. s. d. Carpenters Masons Bricklayers Bricklayers' labourers Plasterers Painters from 3 4 to 4 2 3 6 3 4 2 2 3 4 3 6 4 0 40 3 10 2 6 40 6 5 0 failure, that I now pause before I consent | Committee to adjust the details of some to a proposal for their re-issue. plan, on the principle of which those who support the Committee are agreed, but a Committee without a plan, and the mem bers of which entertain principles the most conflicting. Let us survey the course of this debate, and see whether, among the advocates of inquiry (I say nothing of the opposers, of whom, I suppose, some portion will be on the Committee) there is that uniformity of general views-that we may expect from their labours any early remedy for our distress. The hon. Gentleman who spoke first, the author of the motion, was wise enough to produce no plan-to avoid the suggestion of any specific remedy. He complained, indeed, that the monetary system was manifestly defective; for the population had increased-the produce had increased-but we had tied down the The rate of wages in other towns standard, and prevented its increase. The varies but little from the above. Some hon. Gentleman might just as well comsmall reduction must be made from this plain that "roads have increased-new amount of wages in the case of carpenters, countries have been discovered, but, alas! masons, and bricklayers, on account of the the yard and the mile remain of the same expense of tools which they have to pro- length as before." We hear of an "anvide; but the rate of wages appears ample tiquated standard;" as if the standard had to ensure, with present prices, a decent and got decrepid through age. You might as comfortable maintenance for the workman well say that the pound weight, or the and his family. What is the object of this quart measure was too antiquated for preMotion-the object distinctly, and in terms sent use. A definite weight of metal is avowed by the member for the North as much a standard, a measure of value, Riding of Yorkshire (Mr. Cayley)? To as either the one or the other. If the raise prices;-no doubt that is the inten- hon. Gentleman does not mean the standard, tion, and will be the effect of it. How can but the amount of currency, he is totally in any one doubt that the workman who now error in supposing that the currency cannot earns wages of from 3s. 6d. to 4s. a-day, vary in amount-cannot accommodate itself has a much greater command over the to the growing wants of the people-because necessaries and comforts of life than he the standard is invariable. Every imwould have, were you to increase the cur-provement in the economical use of money rency, and raise the prices of provisions and all other articles? I believe it to be a fact established by official papers, and returns of the quantities of articles of general use consumed, that the condition of the labouring classes is greatly improved since the period when we had an inconvertible, unrestricted paper currency. If you compare the consumption of hops, of malt, of tea and coffee, at different periods, you will find that the industrious classes have now a much greater command of those necessaries of life than they had before. If the fact be so, I call on you, as you value the true interests of the people, to pause before you lend your sanction to any scheme, the avowed purpose of which is to increase the price of the necessaries of life. If this Committee be appointed, when will its labours terminate? It is not a is a variation in the amount of the currency; and the hon. Gentleman's objection, if it be worth anything, is fatal to any standard at all. The hon. Gentleman, however, contented himself with the attempt to show that the present system is chargeable with every imaginable evil; but, as I before said, he wisely abstained from the suggestion of any remedy. He was followed by the member for Oldham (Mr. Cobbett), who was ready to agree with him in his vote, but totally abjured his principles. I must say, that I never was more disappointed, than by the speech of the member for Oldham. He began by claiming peculiar indulgence for himself, on account of his profound study of the whole subject, and because no man ever made a speech upon it, containing right principles, which was not borrowed from him. "The noble Lord," he says, "made a good speech; but, then, it was all copied from me." I think I may assure the hon. Member, that he need not entertain any fears of plagiarism in respect to the speeches which he delivers in this House. I have heard nothing from him, on any occasion, for which he may not reckon on a copyright, which will never be infringed. So little did his observations refer to the question before us, that while he was engaged in their delivery, an ingenuous young Member, who entered the House at the time, inquired from me "whether the currency question was over?" I said "No; this is the currency question." He replied, "I thought, from his speech, that it was the Navy Estimates." All that the hon. Member could produce on this question of the currency was, the notes of an old speech he had intended to make on the Navy Estimates. The hon. Member wants no depreciation of the standard, he will have no issue of paper -("rotten paper "-I fear he said in the hearing of the hon. member for Birmingham.) "Oh, no, give me," he says, "the King's coin, with the King's image upon it." There is something so amiable in his loyalty, that one would forgive his errors, even if he be wrong. Still he consents to go into the Committee, the object of which is to depreciate the standard, and all the remedy he proposes for all our distresses, and all our evils, is to cut down every estimate, and every expense, to the level of 1792. "And yet," says the hon. Member, "England ought to assume a high tone, and till poor Pitt was corrupted by the Whigs, she did assume a high tone; Spain and France were not allowed to have navies and they ought not to be allowed to have navies.' -But how we are to maintain this high tone, and control the naval force of Europe, with the Estimates of 1792, the hon. Member did not clearly show. I should like to ask him how would he deal with the possessions that have been acquired since 1792,-with the Cape of Good Hope, and Malta, and the Mauritius? The hon. Gentleman says, that we had a most successful war; that we annihilated the naval force of all our enemies :-and yet he is surprised that we have more admirals at the end of that war, than we had at its commencement! This Gentleman was the second speaker in favour of the Motion; the third was the member for Knaresborough, who says, that the plan of the hon. member for Oldham (of course one " of his colleagues in the Committee) is a plan of confiscation, rapine, and blood. His remedy was the total abolition of coin, and the payment of bank-notes in bars of gold. The fourth speaker was the hon. member for Wolverhampton. He says, maintain the standard, but throw every burthen on the land; the land had, he observed, escaped every charge, and it was but right that it should be made responsible, now, for the national debt. Then came the hon. member for the North Riding of Yorkshire. His remedy, we know, is a rise of prices. The hon. Gentleman, the member for Birmingham, has not yet spoken; I know not whether he still adheres to the plan which he recommended in 1817, for an unlimited depreciation of the standard, and whether he still maintains the proposition which he then maintained, that you always ought to take the market-price of bullion as the criterion of value, and that you might go on issuing bank-notes, and raising that market-price, even until you made the guinea pass for 100l. or 200l., without causing injury to any one except, possibly, the public annuitant, who should take care of himself, or of whom the Government might take care. [Mr. Attwood: Provided you raised prices to the war level only.] I believe there was no such quali fication; but if there was, it makes no difference. Now, perhaps, it might be right to add to the Committee some opponents of these six or seven Gentlemen; but send even them, alone, into a Committee, with the opinions they entertain, to consider this question,-to examine all the other questions which I have mentioned,and I should like to ask what probability there would be of any practical remedy? You find a patient labouring under every disease; and for his cure, you send for physicians, entertaining totally opposite opinions on his case. Sangrado is summoned from Oldham, and Chuchillo from Birmingham. But what will be the condition of the patient meanwhile? Why, he will be utterly neglected, while the enraged doctors are debating about their principles, and cuffing each other. Will the country believe that the real object of the Committee is any other than a depreciation of the standard? What will be the consequence on commercial transactions? Will any man sell an estate? If there be a prospect that, in two months, the sovereign will pass for 25s., will not every man get the sovereign as soon as he can? twenty years-that confusion will arisethat commercial dealings will be paralyzed by doubts as to the future value of the currency;-above all, if they see cause to apprehend that the wages of labour will not rise in any corresponding ratio with the rise of prices, and that, therefore, the condition of the labourer will be depressed let them reject the plausible appeal, " that distress ought to be inquired into," and refuse to do a great public wrong, though it be covered with a specious veil. I say, respectfully, but firmly, that this is the manly course-this, the true fulfilment of a high and sacred trust. Doubtless, much consideration is due to the feelings and wishes of your constituents. To them you owe-as was truly said by that illustrious man, who, in comprehensive and philosophical views of all public affairs, and of the great principles of social government, surpassed all the statesmen who preceded him, or who have followed-as much as some of them may have exceeded him, in the practical application of official knowledge and experience" to them you owe," says Mr. Burke, "the sacrifice of your time, and your pleasures, and your repose. But to them you do not owe the sacrifice, in the weightiest matters, of your mature and conscientious judgment." "That judgment is not their property, and you abandon the first of duties, if, in deference to the wishes, you consent to sacrifice the interests, of your constituents." If you send it forth to the world that you will have a vague inquiry, which will probably end in depreciation, the consequence, the inevitable consequence, will be ruin to every debtor-to the class you intend to benefit. All debts that can be exacted without delay, will be,-and justly; for the debt, if contracted within the last eighteen years, was contracted in the improved currency. Every man who enforces the payment of such debts due to him, will have not only law, but equity and honesty on his side. What will be the condition of the banks which have undertaken to discharge their promissory notes in gold, and to receive deposits of gold from their customers? Will not the depositors demand their deposits, and the holders of notes press for payment, without delay? Again, will any man advance 20,000l. in sovereigns on mortgage, when he is certain of being repaid in a depreciated currency? The question at issue is not depreciation or no depreciation. The Vice-President of the Board of Trade, in so describing it, has stated it too unfavourably for his own argument; the question is, whether depreciation shall be ultimately effected after a tedious protracted inquiry? That is quite a different question from sudden depreciation. Such depreciation is bad enough, but, as the result of a lingering inquiry, it would be the greatest curse that was ever inflicted. What is the country suffering under? I believe it to be suffering partly For what is it, Sir, that we are sent from the agitation connected with the here? For what is it that we are placed political excitement of recent times, partly on the mountain top, but that we may emfrom a state of doubt and suspense as to brace a wider horizon within our view, and the final settlement of great questions penetrate further than those upon the plain, affecting our commercial policy. The Bank through the mists and darkness which hang Charter is still under consideration, the upon the future. Perform your dutyEast and West India questions are not yet show that you are not engaged in a mere arranged; if to these causes of restless-"scuffling local agency," that you are fit ness you are going to superadd doubts as to the standard-if this be your remedy for calming the excitement that prevails, and mitigating the doubt and suspense that hang upon other unsettled questions-for God's sake close your doors, and depart to your homes; for your sittings here will throw chaos into worse confusion. Sir, I shall now conclude. The subject is far from exhausted-but there are limits to the patience of the House. Before I sit down, let me make an earnest appeal to those whom I address, to weigh well the consequences of the vote they may give. If they foresee, that injustice will be done by the unsettlement of the contracts of to be intrusted with the destinies of an empire; and you will find your reward— my belief is, in the applause of your constituents-but, unquestionably, in the approbation of your own consciences. If you suffer, you will suffer in a noble cause, and you will be repaid with ample interest of honour and reputation, for any temporary loss of popular favour. Read the controversy between Mr. Burke and his constituents in 1780, and judge of your reward by your own admiration of the rejected candidate. They told him, " that his impolitic stubbornness would cost him his seat." If you hear the same language, be prepared with his dignified reply I wished to be a Member of Parliament, to have my share of doing good ' and resisting evil.' 'I deceive myself most 'grossly, if I would not much rather pass 'the remainder of my life hidden in the recesses of the deepest obscurity, feeding my mind even with the visions and imagi'nations of such things than to be placed on 'the most splendid throne of the universe, 'tantalized with a denial of the practice of 'all which can make the greatest situation any other than the greatest curse.' He stood before his constituents accused of no venality-of no neglect of duty—of no sacrifice of their interests to his ambition, or to their own hasty and inconsiderate views. The accusation against him was, that he had preferred to their wishes the dictates of his own humane, deliberate, enlightened judgment, and the true interests of the constituents themselves. Follow his example, and you may truly say with him, if you are obnoxious to a similar charge HOUSE OF COMMONS, Wednesday, April 24, 1833. MINUTES.] Papers ordered. On the Motion of Mr. JOHN ROMILLY, an Account of the Adjournments of Bankrupts Examinations, sine die, since the 11th January, 1832, by the London Commissioners of Bankrupts.-On the Motion of Mr. FINN, the Amount of Salaries and Retired Allowances of the Judges of Ireland, in the year 1792, and subsequent increase.-On the Motion of Mr. HARVEY, an Account of the Number of References brought into the Offices of the respective Masters in Chancery, under Orders and Decrees of the Court, from 1st March, 1828, to the latest period. On the Motion of Mr. AARON CHAPMAN, an Account of the Number of American Ships, and their Registered Tonnage entered inwards at Liverpool from New York, from 1st January, 1832, to 1st January, 1833; and of British Ships for the same period; of the Importation of Cotton into the Port of Liverpool from the United States, both in Foreign and British Ships, for the same period; and of the Exportation of Salt from Liverpool to Prussian Ports in British and Foreign Ships, in the same space of time.-On the Motion of Mr. ROTCH, a List of all Bills of Indictment for Felony against Middlesex Prisoners delivered over by the Justices of the Peace for that County, to the Justices of Gaol Delivery of Newgate, since the 1st of January, 1832; and of those who were not delivered over to the Justices of Gaol delivery of Newgate. Bill. Read a second time:-Lighting and Watching; Assizes' Removal. In every accident which may happen Petitions presented. By Sir WILLIAM FOLKES, from Laun'through life-in pain, in sorrow, in de'pression and distress-I will call to mind this accusation, and be comforted.' But my conviction is, that a different fate is reserved for you that juster views are now taken of the duties which you are called upon to fulfil, and that the true way to secure the applause and lasting confidence of your constituents, is to claim, for yourselves and for them, the right to abide, in high matters like this, by the dictates of your own deliberate conviction. Colonel Torrens moved an adjournment of the Debate. Lord Althorp put it to the Members, whether, after so many hon. Members had spoken, it was desirable further to adjourn the debate? Colonel Torrens persisting in his Motion, the House divided on the question of adjournment. Ayes 98; Noes 318-Majority 220. It was, however, ultimately agreed that the debate should be adjourned. Debate adjourned accordingly. HOUSE OF LORDS, MINUTES.] Petitions presented. By Lord SUPFIELD, from fifty-one Places; by the Duke of RUTLAND, the Earl of SHAFTESBURY, and the Marquess of BATH, from a Num ber of Places,-against Slavery.-By the Duke of RUT LAND, from Sheepshead, for a Factories' Regulation Bill. -By the Earl of SHAFTESBURY, Lord SUFFIELD, and the Bishop of LONDON, from several Places,-for the Better Observance of the Sabbath; and by Lord SUFFIELD, from Truro, for Emancipating the Jews. ditch (Norfolk), for a Repeal of the Duty on Malt and Hops.-By Lord EBRINGTON, Sir WILLIAM FOLKES, and Messrs. ROPER, KEMYSS TYNTE, HODGES, and ROBINSON, from Torrington, and a great many other Places,-against Slavery.-By Lord EBRINGTON, from Ashburton, for a Commutation of Tithes; and from the North Devon Agricultural Association, for rendering the Imperial Measure compulsory.-By Mr. HODGES, from Staplehurst, for a Better Observance of the Sabbath. WINDOW TAX.] Mr. Robinson presented a Petition from the Churchwardens, Overseers, and Vestry of the parish of St. Paul, Covent Garden, praying for the repeal of the Window Tax. The Petition was signed by 400 inhabitants of the parish, who from the nature of their information, were able expressly to say, that the householders generally would no longer pay this most oppressive and unjust tax. The opinion of the inhabitants of the metropolis, and of those residing in all the principal towns of the country, was unanimous as to the necessity of having this tax repealed. If the noble Lord (Lord Althorp) was unable to give up whole of the Window-tax, without laying on some other impost to make up the deficiency, it would be better if the noble Lord would give up the Window-tax, and lay on an adequate increase of the House duty, taking care that it should be equitably arranged, so that there might no longer be a contrast kept up between the rating of the houses of the rich and of the poor. He hoped to see so disgraceful a tax as that on windows expunged from the the {COMMONS} State of the Country. Statute-books of the land; and he thought the best plan that could be pursued by the House would be to repeal the tax altogether, and then to support Ministers in laying on an additional tax to the same amount, if that were necessary, and the tax could not be dispensed with. But it was Ministers who should be expected to say how the amount should be levied to bring forward some plan of their ownand not to make a stand against those who called for the reduction of any particular tax, by asking how the deficiency in the revenue should be made up. He should not do his duty to those who had complimented him by putting the petition into his hand, nor to his constituents in the city of Worcester, if he did not call upon the House to enforce the repeal of the Window-tax. He declared that it was his intention to support the Motion for the repeal whenever it was brought on, Mr. Cobbett contended that the noble Lord might have got more means to enable him to reduce the taxes to a greater extent than he had proposed to do. Why had he not struck off a number of unmerited pensions? There was a number of women who took more of the public money than was necessary to support 25,500 sailors and marines, with their officers. If the noble Lord (Lord Althorp) would pledge himself to reduce that expenditure, he (Mr. Cobbett) would lend him his strenuous support. Mr. Hume said, it was perfectly true, as stated by the hon. member for Oldham, that a very large sum of money was paid to females by way of pensions, and the late Parliament had been exceedingly blameable in extending charity to noble Lords and Ladies, instead of having some charitable consideration for the distresses of the labouring and industrious classes. When he saw the Returns of the number of poor persons who had been distrained upon for small amounts of taxes, and whose goods had been sold, he was convinced it was exceedingly unbecoming to allow a single pension of 50l. to be given to the class of persons he had described. The noble Lord had proposed an efficient relief, but if he wished to do any good he must act on a large scale. If the noble Lord had not the means immediately within his reach, he must consider whether there were not other species of property untaxed; for instance, real property that descended from father to son should be 540 'placed in the same scale of taxation as other property. hon. member for Colchester (Mr. Harvey) He was sorry that the had not pressed his Motion for an inquiry into the nature of the services for which pensions were supposed to have been granted, but he hoped that the hon. Member would be induced to renew it on some early day. Mr. Harvey was sorry that any notion his Motion on the subject of the Pension was entertained that he had abandoned Lists. He had, in fact, only postponed it till the 22nd of May. The object of that Motion was, not to deprive any of the pensioners of the payments they had received, or were entitled to receive, but to relieve them from the odium so generally understood to attach to them, as if land, or Ireland, who received pensions there were any women in England, Scottry a full and adequate consideration. for which they had not given to the counFor this purpose he should move for a Return of all pensioners, and the consideration they had given for their pensions. There was one suggestion which he would it was intended to take the sense of the in the mean time throw out-that when House on any point, it would be well to have an intimation to that effect stated in the votes of the House. In that case hon. Members would take care to be present on particular occasions, or at least absence. Before he sat down, he begged they would have no excuse for their to repeat that on the 22nd of May he would bring forward his Motion, and make an appeal to the gallantry of hon. Members, when the ladies of England now on the Pension-lists would have an opportunity generous supposition that any of them was of vindicating themselves from the unreceiving one sixpence for which an equivalent had not been given. Petition laid on the Table. SYSTEM.-ADJOURNED DEBATE.] CoSTATE OF THE COUNTRY-MONETARY lonel Torrens moved the Order of the Day for resuming the debate. The hon.and gallant Officer then proceeded to say, though he believed it would be expedient to appoint a Select Committee to inquire into the state of our monetary system, yet he degrade the ancient standard of value, was not one of those who sought to lower or upon the faith of which the engagements of the country have been contracted. He |