comes of the clergy, and had quoted the observations which he (Lord Althorp) had made against a graduated Propertytax. But between a graduated Propertytax, and a graduated tax upon the incomes of the clergy there was a great difference. The right hon. Gentleman objected to the reduction of the Bishops

of Ireland. He was prepared to consider a measure of Church Reform, which had that object in view; but as this Bill contained the principle, that Church property improved in its value by an Act of the Legislature, might, to the extent of that improvement, be applied to the purposes of the State, and as no hope was held out of the abandonment of that prin--that it would not leave enough, when ciple, he could not assent to a measure which was in his opinion, unjust towards the Church, and which sanctioned a principle dangerous to the security of all property, whether lay or ecclesiastical, corporate or individual.

the Bishops were attending their duties in Parliament, to attend to their episcopal duties in Ireland. But if that argument were applied to English Bishops, all of whom were in attendance in Parliament during its sittings, while only a part of Lord Althorp admitted, that it was very the Irish Bishops had seats in the dangerous to assert any principle which other House, the argument would have interfered with any established right of much more force. The right hon. Genproperty. He could not, however, admit, tleman had proved too much. After that there was any analogy between the Bill had passed, the number of BiChurch property, and that of Corporations shops in Ireland, in proportion to the -and still less was there any between it, revenues of the Clergy, and to the number and the property of individuals, which came of benefices, would be much greater in to them by inheritance. In the case of proportion than the number of Bishops in the holders of Church property, they England. In his opinion, the number obtained their rights neither by inheritance would be large enough. As to the nor purchase, but by the arbitrary choice expansive power of Protestantism to which of the Crown, or of certain individuals the right hon. Baronet had alluded, that who held the right of appointing them. expansive power would, he believed, be The right hon. Gentleman, he understood, increased as they removed the abuses did not object to converting Bishops' which he had always understood, preleases into perpetuities, but he objected to vented it from rising and spreading over appropriating the increased value thereby the land. The large number of Bishoprics given to the property to the State. But was one of the burthens that confined it, the right hon. Gentleman objected prin- and kept it from spreading. After the cipally on account of the smallness of the number of Bishops was reduced, it would amount, and seemed to admit, that he be found, on comparing the number left would have no objection to it, provided in Ireland, with the number in England, the amount were considerable. After that that the former would be in proportion admission, he did not understand how the much larger. Of course he did not admit, right hon. Gentleman could object to the with the hon. member for Oxford, that principle, or say it was inequitable or un- they were not to touch the Bishops at all. just; all that he was entitled to say was, Looking at their duties, he thought that that it was impolitic. The right hon. the number left would be sufficient. LookGentleman agreed, too, in the principle, ing, too, at the benefices, he was of the that the Church cess ought to be abolish- same opinion. The revenue of the Irish ed, but objected to the mode of providing Bishops was 130,000l., and the revenue for that expense. For his part he did not of the parochial clergy was 600,000l.; see, if it were to come out of the property the revenue of the English Bishops was of the Church, as the right hon. Gentle- 160,000l., and the revenue of the English man admitted, why it should not come parochial clergy was 3,000,000Z.; which out of the revenues of the clergy. He showed, that the Bishops of Ireland would believed that, in principle, he and the be quite enough. The great number of right hon. Gentleman agreed; and he Bishops was one of the causes of disconshould be happy to take into considera- tent and dissatisfaction. He could not tion, in the Committee, any objections the concur, therefore, with the right hon. Genright hon. Gentleman might make to the tleman in his objection to reducing the details. The right hon. Gentleman had number of Bishops. He felt bound to objected to the graduated tax on the in-state, in conclusion, that to the alterations

which had been suggested by the right it unworthy of support, on the ground, hon. Baronet, his Majesty's Government that no necessity existed for its enactwould object, and he therefore could not ment. His Majesty's Ministers had complain, that those Gentlemen who de- greatly exaggerated the amount of the sired those alterations, should divide Vestry-cess. In the remission of that against the second reading of the Bill. impost he cordially concurred, and a fund Colonel Conolly said, he was induced could be raised to meet the amount without to oppose the measure then before the diminishing the number of the bishoprics; House on two grounds—he viewed it as a he thought it right that such a plan should spoliative, as well as a most arbitrary be adopted, but his Majesty's Ministers, measure. The grounds upon which the by confounding the Vestry-cess with other spoliation of the property of the Church parochial charges with which it had was sought to be justified were of so nothing whatever to do, had made it wretched and miserable a description, that appear to be a much heavier burthen than he was astonished how the right hon. Gen- it really was, and they had estimated it at tleman, the Secretary for the Colonies, a sum nearly double its amount. Should with his splendid talents, could condescend it be necessary to reduce the number of to resort to arguments that were not sus- bishoprics at all, it appeared to him, that tained by anything like legitimacy of pur- one-half the number of sees proposed to pose. He was most happy to join his be despoiled would answer. He was of humble tribute of admiration to the elo-opinion, that some of the smaller sees in quent declaration of the right hon. Baronet, the agricultural districts could be better the member for Tamworth, as to the dispensed with than those of the larger respectability of the Protestant Church of districts, such as Cork, Kilkenny, and Ireland. No feeling was nearer his heart, Waterford. In these cities were the than the wish to see the immunities and seats, dioceses, and county parochial privileges of that Church handed down to charities, and in Waterford alone there posterity pure and unfettered. The Bill were charitable institutions which renow before the House he considered par- quired the superintendence of the highest ticularly objectionable, as he thought the functionaries. They were, in fact, all principle involved in it must finally prove left by the pious and charitable individuals destructive to all property. And let not by whom they were founded under the hon. Members suppose, that the property charge of the Bishop, and here he could of the Established Church in Ireland not avoid paying the tribute of his admiracould be endangered, without the Es- tion to the memory of those individuals tablished Church in England partici- whose splendid bequests had effected so pating in her ruin. He considered the much for the relief of the poor of that present measure as a sacrifice at the town. There was another part of the shrine of agitation. He would maintain, Bill to which he entertained an insuthat it was an off-set to the measure which perable objection. He referred to that part had been passed for the purpose of sup- of it which levied a tax upon livings of porting the King's Government in Ireland. 2001. a-year. When he called to mind It had been called by his Majesty's Mi- the summary manner in which that tax nisters a remedial measure, and even was to be levied, he could not but view considering it in that point of view, he the measure as one not merely arbitrary was satisfied it would not have the effect in its nature, but as one of extortion. It was of tranquillizing the country. Permitting his business to show the House the cruelty the property of the Church to be spoliated and injustice of the measure which he in the present instance would only tend to would characterise as politically unwise aggravate the ills of Ireland, and increase and ecclesiastically injurious. Great comthe desire for further spoliation; and he plaints had been made, and with justice, considered, that his Majesty's Ministers of the evils arising out of absenteeism, were, by their conduct, pandering to the and yet his Majesty's Ministers, by the revolutionary and destructive appetites course they were pursuing, were doing all which they could never satisfy. Inde- in their power to increase those evils. His pendently of the demerits of the Bill-Majesty's Ministers, in joining in the cry and upon those grounds alone he was against the Church, were sacrificing the strongly bound to oppose it inde-best interests of the country [No, no]. He pendently of its demerits-he considered would repeat distinctly, that they were

Humbly showeth-That your Petitioners | some of these persons, that further inquiare deeply impressed with the opinion, that ries would have proved that, in these ten the efficacy of criminal laws depends less upon cases, the punishment had been remitted the severity of punishment than the certainty because the offences were committed before of infliction; and that laws which cannot be the passing of the Act. Waiving this confeelings of society, and exciting sympathy for sideration, however, and taking the ten the offender, are contrary to reason, inconsist-cases, they showed that the proportion in ent with morality, and opposed to the interests of justice:

carried into execution without shocking the

That the criminal laws of England are of a character so vindictive and barbarous as to be utterly incapable of uniform execution; and that consequently, under the present system, the lives of men depend less upon the precise and express provisions of law than upon the temper, feeling, or caprice of a Judge, or Secretary of State, whence it arises that all the assizes and circuits throughout England afford examples of inequality of punishment, and practical proofs of the arbitrary discretion exercised in the selection of victims for the altars of sanguinary justice:

which the law had been carried into effect was in twenty-nine cases out of thirty. Taking these returns as a criterion of the whole empire, he said, that to enforce the law in twenty-nine cases out of thirty was a harsh and unjustifiable administration of the criminal law. He did not make any charge against the noble Viscount at the head of the Home Department, but he blamed the clause which had been introduced, and to which was to be ascribed the effect he had mentioned. When the Bill was brought up from the other House it

did not contain that clause. It was introThat the excessive severity of the law ope-duced in that House as an Amendment; rates to the total impunity of a great propor-and when it went back to the other House tion of offenders, by deterring humane persons for its concurrence, the other House was from prosecuting, and by holding out a temptation to Jurors to violate their oath rather than be accessory to judicial murder; while almost all the capital punishments now on the Statute-book are innovations upon the temperate and wholesome principles of the ancient common law of the land, which has ever been

admired for its humanity and wisdom by the greatest legal authorities, and is coeval with the noblest and best principles of the English

Constitution:

That your Petitioners, therefore, humbly pray your right hon. House to take the criminal laws into your consideration, and, in accordance with what the true interests of justice as well as of humanity require, to introduce such a thorough and efficient Reform of the criminal law as will render it more availing to public morals than to private vengeance, and by a judicious system of prison discipline afford that protection to property of which all persons may avail themselves without purchasing it by the sacrifice of human life.

averse from assenting to it, and only did so from an apprehension that the Bill would be lost if it resisted the Amendment. He might speak of these things because they were matters of history. It was absurd to carry such a law into effect in all cases. Suppose a man tried for stealing 51. in a dwelling-house and found guilty, it was imperative on the Judge to sentence him to transportation for life; and the sentence, as the Returns showed, was sure to be carried into effect. The next person might be tried for breaking and entering and stealing, that was a capital offence; and if he were found guilty, the Judge might sentence him to one year's imprisonment and to hard

labour.

The punishment, then, for the inferior offence, was transportation for life, and for the capital offence, one year's imprisonment. This was an anomaly in Lord Lyndhurst would avail himself of the law which ought not to be suffered. that opportunity to advert to a subject to And on what ground was the law enacted? which he had taken the liberty of calling It was proposed to make the punishment the attention of their Lordships some time certain-the punishment certain! In genback. He had then referred to the Acteral it was made certain by the discretion which passed at a late period of last Session, of the Court. It was not disputed that by which persons guilty of offences before punishment was made certain only for the capital were subject to be transported for purpose of preventing crime. That was life. He had then moved for Returns to the principle on which the Legislature elucidate the operation of that Act; those acted. But it was said, in this case, that Returns had since been laid upon the Table, discretion was not to be vested in the Court, and by them it appeared, that, out of 300 but one uniform and most severe punishconvictions, under that Act of Parliament, ment should be always inflicted. The law there were only ten cases of punishment applied a fixed punishment to different commuted. He was satisfied, too, by the grades of crime, and the consequence was, inquiries he had made into the cases of that the punishment was not proportioned