that "

had received from Caithness, he was as- | noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Exchesured, by a public-spirited proprietor, quer, a greater degree of regard had not agriculturists never were more de- been paid to the agricultural interest. The pressed, and that unless public burthens remission of the tax upon tiles, and the be diminished, they must all stop pay- half repeal of the duty upon soap, could ment." He should not at present discuss not give general satisfaction, and he the sources of the pressure of which land- thought, that by this time, the noble Lord lords and farmers were complaining, but must be firmly convinced of it. The noble he could not help considering the mone- Lord, should recollect that up to this hour tary system as one great and leading the agricultural interest had occupied but cause. Indeed the present distress and little of the attention of the House, althe present currency seemed to him as in- though it must be well known that in times separable as the Siamese twins; whenever of peril and distress they were foremost you look at the one, the other unavoidably in meeting with loyalty and cheerfulness stares you in the face. The success of the many burthens which were imposed this proposition would be hailed with satis- upon them. These were considerations faction by the proprietors and tenantry of which should have their effect upon the Scotland as an omen of approaching re- noble Chancellor of the Exchequer, as lief. well as with the House, and he hoped it was not yet too late for the noble Lord to reconsider his Budget, and if he could make any alteration in it, that such an alteration should be in favour of the agricultural interest.

Mr. O'Connell said, that his hon. friend, the member for Middlesex, was greatly misunderstood, when it was supposed that he meant anything offensive to the advo. cates of the agricultural interests by saying that they should come there with clean hands. The mistake only exemplified the danger of using figures of speech, and certainly his hon. friend, the member for Middlesex, was more expert at figures of arithmetic than at figures of rhetoric. All that his hon. friend meant was, that the agricultural interest should give up their monopoly in corn before they called for relief. As there was as great agricultural distress in Ireland as in England, he would vote for the Motion of the noble Marquess.

Sir Edward Knatchbull said, that the opinions of the hon. Member (Mr. Hume) would not surprise this House, but they certainly would be likely to lead persons out of this House much astray as to the objects, and intentions, and interests of the agricultural portion of the community. He (Sir E. Knatchbull) was an advocate for the agricultural interest, but he never attempted to support it at the expense of any other interest. He sought for justice -he sought for right-he sought, as he was bound to do, for protection to the agricultural interest; but he sought for no monopoly, neither did he seek to enforce the rights of the agricultural interest with unclean hands." The hon. member for Middlesex thought, perhaps, that he might gain some popularity by attacking the agricultural interest; but he could assure the hon. Member, that any such popularity would be of very short duration. No one could doubt but that the noble Chancellor of the Exchequer had promised Mr. Thomas Attwood wished to know a partial relief to the agricultural interests; what was meant by the Motion of the he had promised a Committee to inquire noble Marquess. Did he mean to say into the nature and causes of their distress; that the Corn Laws did not afford sufficiand he had only to hope that the noble ent protection to landowners and the Lord would not fail in the full performance landed interest? In consequence of the of his promise. From time to time a great Resolution which was carried on Wednesdeal had been said about the Corn Laws; day night, it would be impossible long to he did not on this occasion wish to open retain the Corn Laws. He would take that fertile topic of discussion; and all he that opportunity to give notice, that upon would now say was, that he wished it an early day he would move for the total could be fairly and dispassionately consi-repeal of all the Corn Laws, and of all laws dered, while his apprehensions were that of any kind-[Immense Laughter.] If it could not. Upon principle he was called upon to support the Motion of the noble Marquess, and he only regretted, that in the remission of taxes proposed by the

hon. Members would wait till his sentence had been concluded they would have spared their laughter. He now gave notice that he would, on an early day, move

of the duty upon malt to 10s. a quarter. The hon. Baronet said, that this tax pressed most heavily upon every interest in the country, and he considered that its repeal, or even partial remission, would be regarded as a boon by the people generally, without

for a total repeal of the Corn Laws, and of all laws the effect of which was to impose a duty upon the importation of the articles of food. He had had that notice for some weeks in his pocket, and he was determined at an early day to bring the Motion forward: while they had a restrict-regard to the particular interest or class ed and contracted currency, it would be impossible to keep up the Corn Laws. The House divided on the Amendment: Ayes 90; Noes 118.-Majority against the Resolution 28.

with which they were connected. The manufacturer of Birmingham would experience from it as much relief as the farmer; and therefore all were equally interested in the question, which it was his duty now to bring under the consideration of the House. From a knowledge of the fact he could state to the House that barley, and that, too, in his own county, was at the present time selling at a lower price than the duty which, if brought to the maltster's, must be paid on it to the Government. Under such a state of things, it was apparent that neither the farmer nor the landlord could much longer exist. They were both going as fast as they could to ruin; for, oppressed as they were by tithes, taxes, rents, and divers other charges, what else could happen? But if the landlord should go to ruin, he should very much like to know what was to become of the fund-lord. If the former were to fall into decay, was it likely the existence of the latter could be long protracted? In fact, they were both so much involved in one common interest, and each being obliged to depend so much upon the other, that the destruction of the landlord must inevitably bring about the overthrow of the fund-lord. This being the case, he earnestly hoped the noble Lord (Lord Althorp) would, while time was yet allowed him for the purpose, reconsider his Budget, and endeavour to find out some means of providing a revenue without enforcing the Malt-tax. Looking at it in a moral point of view this impost was bad, and one of the many evils resulting from it was, that beer-shops were now as numerous all over the country as toadstools. It placed the enjoyment of a wholesome beverage at his own home beyond the reach of the poor man, and drove him to the beer-shops; and hence it was, that those nuisances had so fearfully increased in all directions. He contended that a larger revenue was produced by the former low duty upon this article than had been received since its increase to its present amount, and this he urged as a reason in favour of the proposition which he intended to make. If the capital of the landlord

He knew

to the purposes of the State. of one man who, on being called home to his long account, left behind him no less a sum than 800,000l. It might be supposed that the possessor of so much wealth paid taxes and tithes, and kept up a large establishment in houses and servants; but what was the fact? Why, that he never paid taxes nor tithes, nor did he keep anything but an old woman and a tom cat. Here there was a large mass of money that was wholly unprofitable to the State. in accordance with a pledge which he had He brought forward this Motion given, and whenever he pledged his word to do anything, that thing was most commonly done. He had endeavoured to get some hon. Gentleman who possessed more ability than he did to take the matter off his hands: but being unable to induce any one to take the matter up, he had been obliged to make a virtue of necessity, and undertake the task, onerous as it was, himself. He begged, however, to assure the House, that it was far from his object to embarrass his Majesty's Ministers, but he could, at the same time, assure the noble Lord, that even the remission of this tax which was now asked would, if conceded, confer a very great boon upon the people at large, for by them this impost was regarded as odious. The Malt-duties at present produced a revenue of nearly 5,000,000l., and it might, perhaps, be considered unreasonable if he were to call upon the noble Lord to remit so large á sum; but, under all the circumstances, he would submit to the consideration of the House whether the noble Lord ought not to be content with 2,500,0004, upon the principle that half a loaf was better than no bread. By agreeing to so reasonable a proposition the noble Lord would greatly oblige, not only him, but the country. The hon. Baronet moved a Resolution, "That the duty upon malt be reduced from 20s. 8d. the quarter to 10s. the quarter."

was to be destroyed, if the tenant was to be unable to pay his rent, how he, (Sir W. Ingilby) should be glad to learn, would the fund-lord be able to come at his dividends? He should, indeed, be sorry to see the landlord and the fund-lord in a state of warfare; and if ever such an event should happen, the day on which it took place would be an awful one for the country; but he did think that the landlord should be protected, for it should be borne in mind by the House that he it was by whom the fund-lord was guaranteed. The protection, therefore, that was extended to the one would be an advantage and an additional security to the other, and if it was really intended to preserve the national honour towards the public creditor untarnished, that would best be done by consulting the well-being of the landlord. He begged to assure the House that he did not bring forward the subject from party or personal motives, but solely for the good of the country, and to satisfy the public mind that the interests of the poor were not wholly neglected by the Legislature. He was old enough to remember the time when hardly any sober or industrious man would be seen in an ale house, but now he lamented to think, the working classes being unable, by reason of the operation of this impost, to enjoy themselves at home, were compelled as it were to take refuge in those Tom-and-Jerry shops. But the noble Lord must be fully sensible of the baneful consequences of the present system, and therefore it was, that he (Sir William Ingilby) hoped the noble Lord would soon discover some plan by means of which the Malt tax might be removed. Perhaps the noble Lord would turn his attention to finding a substitute for this tax, for he might depend upon it the country would never be satisfied to have a revenue raised from such a source. If he (Sir William Ingilby) were to be made Chancellor of the Exchequer-if he were to fill that responsible office-he did not know but that in the course of time was satisfied the reduction proposed by the Mr. Parrott seconded the Motion. he would be found following in the foot-hon. Baronet would not only benefit the steps of his predecessors, and, like them, agricultural classes, but be a very great endeavouring to ruin the country by show-advantage to the public generally. In his ing a preference to the fund-lord over the opinion it would be practicable to remit landlord; but in the frame of mind in this tax without occasioning any diminuwhich he then was, he must say, that he tion in the revenue. should be very strongly disposed to ap-half the tax, as proposed by the Resolution The remission of proach the rich men in the city, and out of the hon. Baronet, might cause a loss to of the mass of wealth lying idle there, en- the revenue of 100,000l. The whole deavour to obtain a capital to be applied amount of the tax was 4,800,000%, and if

He

of the country and public faith might be | terest in this subject, but he had voted 696 maintained without it. He had voted in against the Motion of the noble Marquess, the minority on the Motion of the hon. because he did not perceive that it would member for Whitehaven. said that that Motion was a dishonest one, several Members who had spoken in the It had been be productive of good. He thought that but he denied that he had voted for it late discussions had fallen into a great with any dishonest intention. He had mistake in supposing that the reductions never proposed to himself a depreciation of of taxes which had taken place in certain the currency, and if that had been the ob- branches of trade and industry were of no ject, he should not have been a party to benefit to farmers, but a reduction of taxes it. With respect to finding a substitute on any branch of industry must, indirectly, for a tax proposed to be taken off, he benefit the agricultural interest. For his knew the doctrine which was held by own part, as a Member of that House he Gentlemen on that (the Ministerial) side of was not disposed to divide any responsithe House when they sat upon the oppo- bility with the Chancellor of the Exchesite side of the House. Did they never vote quer, but was rather inclined to acquiesce for a reduction of taxes without pointing in the proposed arrangements of that noble out how the deficiency might be supplied? Lord, unless it could be shown that the He knew that it was their constant prac- proposed reductions would confer no tice to do so. When they had been asked benefit. Knowing as he did the willingto point out a substitute for a tax which ness of the noble Lord to reduce the burthey asked to have taken off, what was the thens of the country he was disposed to reply? Why, that they had nothing to give him his support. It was said, and do with finding a substitute; it was probably with truth, that the country was enough for them to show that the tax was dissatisfied with the amount of the proa bad one, without being also obliged to posed reduction, but, whatever might be point out a substitute. He certainly did the extent of that dissatisfaction, he was not like to proceed upon this principle, quite sure a great part of it arose from but he at the same time was anxious to see undue expectations which had been raised a great commutation of taxes effected. in the public mind. It was quite clear He was, he repeated, anxious to keep faith to any man of reflection that no such exwith the national creditor; but still he tent of reduction could take place as that was desirous of reducing the taxes of the which had been suggested in several country. What he wished to see was a quarters. He meant it could not take tax upon property. Those who possessed place consistently with the maintenance of property ought to pay for its protection, public faith and credit. At the same time for it was they alone who were benefitted. he wished to see a further alleviation of The mode of assessing taxes he considered public burthens produced by strict economy as unfair, for the burthen was not placed and reduction of expenditure. He did not as it ought to be, on those who possessed deny the existence of some distress, but property, and consequently required pro- he believed it prevailed more in the agritection, but upon the necessitous. With-cultural than in the manufacturing disout going deeply into the Malt-tax, he considered it one that ought to be remitted, and he only regretted that the hon. Baronet had moved for its total removal. Whenever that was done he should be prepared to show how a taxation sufficient to answer the exigencies of the State and keep faith with the public creditor could be collected. It was his opinion that property and not necessity, should be taxed. A tax on property was considered a war tax; but, for his part, he should wish to see it levied in peace, because he regarded it as less oppressive than any other which could be devised. He should support the Resolution.