depreciating the standard, but there were a country where the principle of depreciremote evils to be considered not less im-ation may not be so much in fashion." portant. For his own part, he asked for What would be the situation of the bank, equal justice for each party, for both if this Committee were appointed? Was debtor and creditor; but looking to there a man who had a bank-note, who the general policy of such a measure as would not at once endeavour to turn it into that before the House, he would ask cash, that he might, as much as possible, what, if it were carried into effect, would guard against the impending depreciation? become of the desire of accumulating? The sheets would be scarcely dry by the and who would wish to have property, means of which the proceedings of that when the simple fiat of the Legislature House were circulated throughout the might destroy, in a few hours, the result country, before, if the hon. Member's of fifty years' persevering toil, and the proposal was adopted, there would ensue hopes of parents and children? And upon a scene of universal bankruptcy and what grounds too? Simply, that the confusion never witnessed in any country. poor debtor was distressed, whilst your And for whose benefit was this to happen? rich creditor was enjoying all the sweets Not for the benefit of landed proprietors; of opulence. There was much capital in not for that of manufacturers and merthe country, which must always remain in chants, since their benefit would be only it, and which could not be applied except for a day; not for the good of the labourwhere it stood; but there was much also ing and operative classes, since they would that might be transferred: let the experi- be deeply injured by it; not for the benefit ment now proposed be once tried, and of the fundholders, since they would be away would go a large mass of the capital actually pillaged by it! For whose benewhich had tended so much to invigorate fit was it then? Solely for that of debtors. the industry and add to the resources of By it Mr. A, the debtor, would have so the country. This was, in his opinion, much the more, and Mr. B, the creditor, the fair view of the question, and that was, so much the less. On one hint that had he repeated it, one of depreciation or been thrown out in the course of the evenno depreciation. The Committee which ing, he would say a single word. It had the hon. Member called for once granted, been said, that, by this depreciation, the that must follow (he would not say that public burthens would be diminished; he it must necessarily follow as the result of admitted the assertion, but, at the same that Committee's acts), but in the minds time, he would say, that there were other of the public it must follow; and the ways, and happily honest and honourable effect must be worse, from the fact of the ways, to diminish those burthens, without hon. Member leaving the extent of the disturbing public contracts. Would not a depreciation undefined. If he had said reduction of taxation be a more direct and that it would be five, or ten, or fifteen per a more honest mode of relieving those cent, men would be prepared for the burthens? And had nothing been recently result; but leaving it indefinite, he left done in that way? Upwards of 6,000,000l. them nothing to guide them. Every cre- had been reduced within the last four ditor in London would know it to-morrow, years, and relief had thus been afforded to and what would be the consequence? An the people in a more upright and equitable hon. Member had stated some time ago, manner than in the way suggested by the that such was the distress of the country, present Motion, because the public crethat every second or third house from ditor had not been deprived of that to Charing-cross to the Exchange contained which he was fairly entitled. The hon. an insolvent. Suppose that to be the fact, member for Birmingham, indeed, contendwhat would the creditors say when they ed that reduction of taxation gave no relief, found a proposition of this sort entertained which was a remarkable doctrine to be and agreed to by the House? The cre- entertained by gentlemen who proposed ditor would go to his debtor and say, "Pay to depreciate the currency as a means of me at once, or I shall sell all you possess; lightening the public burthens. The hon. and, though it may be at a sacrifice, that Gentleman, the member for Oldham, had must be better than the indefinite loss given utterance to the oft-repeated fallacy, which I may sustain by waiting to obtain that the creditor had gained enormously payment in a depreciated currency. I by the appreciation of money. He very shall realize what I can, and transfer it to much doubted the correctness of this as sertion. Mr. Mushet had shown, as clearly as could be done by figures, that the public creditor, instead of gaining by the appreciation of money, was, taking into consideration the loss he suffered during the depreciation, a loser to the extent of somewhere about 44,000l. a-year perpetual annuity. He objected, then, to the propositions of the hon. Member even on this ground. If they could no longer bear the public burthens, or pay that which was due to the public creditor, he should say, "compound with him; exhibit the state of your affairs; say that you are not able to pay the 28,000,000l. which he at present receives; but do not adopt that which was only a clumsy means of arriving at the same end-which carried with it a complete disruption of all other money contracts, and rendered insecure private and public credit--which would reduce to beggary not only a few rich fundholders, as they were termed, but no less than 275,000 public creditors, who received dividends under 4007., and which would take the means of livelihood from the widow and the orphan. He had now concluded what he wished to address to the House. He would offer to the proposal of the hon. Member his determined opposition. He would do so, because it was founded on injustice, and would be followed by ruin. As a proposal for a Committee to inquire into distress, it would be useless, if it were not dangerous. As a proposal to lower the standard of value which it really was, it was at once fraught with dishonour and prospective ruin. In it he saw the complete disarrangement of the whole commercial and social system of this country. In it he saw the loss of that high reputation which this country possessed amongst the nations of Europe, as such he earnestly implored the House to reject it. Let them avoid it, not only because it would inflict on the country all the misery he had pointed out; but let them do so because it would, he in his conscience believed, cause them to forfeit that which ought to be as dear to a nation as to an individual, an hitherto unspotted name for honour and integrity. Debate Adjourned. INDEXES GENERAL INDEXES ΤΟ VOLS. XV. XVI. & XVII. (THIRD SERIES) SESSION 1833, OF HANSARD'S PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES. (A.)-SUBJECTS OF DEBATE S. No I. HOUSE OF LORDS.-N° II. HOUSE OF COMMONS. No I. DEBATES-LORDS. ADDRESSES in answer to the King's King's Bench (Ireland), xvi. 194 Speech, vol. xv. 90 Administration of Justice, xvi. 1060 Algiers, occupation of, xvii. 900 Answer to the Address, xv. 297 Labour Rate, xvii. 751 Law Commission, xvii. 756. Criminal, 316, Local Judicatures, xvi. 1190.-xvii. 591 Chancery, Bill to Reform the proceedings in, Lunatics, Regulation of (Bill), xv. 550 xvii. 70 Church Patronage (Wales), xvi. 1222, 1291.- Church, Reform of (England), xv. 297 Cotton Duties, xvii. 1069 Death, punishment of, xvi. 632 Education (Ireland), xvi. 699, 779 Ireland, see Mayo, Disturbances, Change of Jews, emancipation of, xvi. 775 Mayo, Disturbances in, xv. 463.-xvi. 700 Parliament, Opening of, xv. 33 Peer, Conduct of one, xvii. 1109 Poor Laws, Commission to inquire into, xv. Porlock, Case of the Rector of, xv. 1134, 1174 Queen Anne's Bounty, xvi. 529 Sabbath, Observance of, xv. 716, 1171.-xvi. Slaughter House, Metropolitan, xvii. 462 Slave Trade, xv. 1142 Sligo, Marquess of, accusation against, xv. 463 Speaker, the, Royal Assent to the choice of, XV. 83 Speech, The King's, xv. 86 Stafford, Borough of, Indemnity Bill, xvii. Stanley, Mr., Petition to Remove from the Turnpike Roads, Debts on, xv. 634 Government of Ireland, xv. 1133 Suits, at Common Law, xvii. 137 Tithes (Ireland), xv. 462 Tithes (England), xv. 1134.-xvii. 718, 960 Venue, Change of (Ireland), xv. 1093 West-India Colonies, State of, xv. 1143 Berwick, Governor of, xv. 136 Blasphemy, Punishment of, xv. 634, 767 Brazils, trade with, xvi. 284, 888 ing, 1354.-xvii. 36. Second Bill for, 966, Clergy (the Irish), Residence of, xv. 623 Commerce, Committee to inquire into, xvii. 958 Committees, Grand, on Religion, &c., xv. Counsel, conduct of, in Committees, xvii. 1112 Dartmouth, Corporation of, xvi. 117 Debates, Correctness of the Reported, xvi. 1119 Debts, Payment of, xvii. 369 Bribery at Elections, xv. 233.-xvii. 194, 964 Disturbances, Suppression of (Ireland), Bill for, xv. 873, 1099, 1101. First Reading, 1210, Divisions in the House, xv. 991, 1021 Dover Election, xvii. 371, 895 Dunglass, Lord, Pension to, xvii. 1064 East-India Company's Charter, xv. 632 1074 Employment, Provision against the want of it, | Manufactures, Committee to inquire into, xvii. Jersey, xvii 1104 955 Marine Insurances, see Budget Marshall, Mr. Grantley, xvii. 744 Misunderstandings in the House, xv. 1129 Naval Officers Sitting in Parliament, xv. 622 122 Newcastle, Corporation of, xv. 949 Newsham, Richard, case of, xvi. 1235, 1344 Newspapers, Lending, Contrary to Law, xvii. 321 Nocturnal Legislation, xv. 559 Oaths, xv. 1292 Offences in Ireland, Number of, xv. 1146 Parliament, Opening of, xv. 35 Jews, Emancipation of, xv. 310, 559.-xvi. 10, Parochial Registration, xvi. 1209 725, 973,-xvii. 205 Joy, Baron, xvii. 1274 Judges' Chambers, xv. 1165 Judges' Salaries, xvii. 118 Judges, Diminished Jurisdiction of, xv. 637 Kilkenny, Proclaiming of, xvii. 117, 244 Lancaster Assizes, xvi. 1203 Launceston, Borough of, xvii. 201, 722 Liverpool Election, xv. 1026, 1187.-xvi. 293, Lord's Day, The, see Sabbath Malt-duties, xvi. 907.-xvii. 690. 728, 758 Patents, Law of, xv. 974 Paupers (Irish), Passing of, xvii. 1022 Peel, Sir Robert, xvii. 1277 Peer, Interference of at an Election, xv. 1183 Petitioners, Character of, xvi. 1141 Petitions, Propriety of Printing, xv. 227, 990. Places in the House kept, xvi. 303 Plymouth Break Water, xvii. 122 Police, Metropolitan, xvi. 1138 Political Unions, xv. 311.-xvii. 31 Poor Laws (Ireland), xv, 1148.-xvii. 34, Poor, Treatment of the, xv. 947 Prince Leopold's Annuity, xv. 1077 Property, Law of Real, Bills to Amend, xv. |