had acted for Sir Francis. Mr. Mainwaring had delivered his lists to the agents of Sir Francis, and Sir Francis, on his part, had caused no list to be delivered. Under these circumstances it was evident the petitioners would have an advantage. He conceived, therefore, that a substitution to the extent of the pecuniary rights of the candidate, would only tend to the extension of that delay which had already kept Middlesex three years unrepresented. He could not, therefore, consent to any long delay now, lest it should prevent the decision from taking place within the present session.

Mr. Creevey allowed there were appearances of collusion in the circumstances adverted to by the hon. gentleman. He thought that some delay should be granted, from a regard to the general provisions of the act, and the general rights of petitioners under it; but he was ready to admit that delay should be very little in this case.

The Attorney General agreed in the reasonableness of the arguments of the hon. gentleman who spoke last, and the fairness of his admissions. He proposed the exchange of the lists to take place on Wednesday, and the ballot on Friday.

A conversation ensued, in which Mr. Fox stated that he thought that too short time. Mr. Mellish represented the advantage given by Mr. Mainwaring in the notification of the oaths he meant to object to, without receiving any correspondent information from the opposite party in return. Mr. Fox considered that the petitioners, if treated bona fide as such, were not bound by any thing done by either of the other parties.

Mr. Sturges Bourne thought the petitioners not entitled to any indulgence of time, as they had held back their petition to the very last moment of the time allowed them by parlia ment to present it.

Mr. Fox could not admit, that when a certain time was allowed by parliament for any purpose, those to whom it was granted were liable to answer for having availed themselves of it to the full extent. Mr. Mainwaring, the elder, had delayed to the last day on which he could have presented his petition, and nobody arraigned him on that account. Mr. Wilberforce offered a few observations. The ballot was fixed for Friday, and the exchange of lists for Thursday.

Colonel Craufurd expressed some unwillingness to delay any further his intended motion on the state of the army; but as many of the papers would not be ready early enough for the next day, and there was no other day open this week, he felt himself under the necessity of putting it off till Monday.

Tt2

Mr.

Mr. Sturges Bourne gave notice, that his right hon. friend then absent (the chancellor of the exchequer) intended to make a motion in the committee of ways and means on Wednesday, for the appropriation of the surplus of the consolidated fund, on 5th April last. Lata de

Mr. Grey said there would be five millions to be appropriated for the surplus of the consolidated fund of this year, unless it was applied to the purposes of continental subsidy. He wished to know whether the notice had any relation to this.

Mr. Sturges Bourne said, his notice related only to the surplus of the last year.

The prize bill and the commissioners of taxes bill were read a third time and passed.

1. :

The corn laws amendment bill was read a second time, and committed for Thursday.

The land tax redemption regulation bill, and the Irish civil list bill were read a second time, and ordered to be committed the next day.

داد راز

The further consideration of the report of the Dublin pay ing bill was fixed for Friday.

The London port improvement bill, the barrack-mastergeneral's bill, and the Irish fish bounty appropriation bill, were reported, and ordered to be read a third time next day. Adjourned.

The house was occupied for a considerable length of time in a committee of privileges on the Rous peerage, during which strangers were excluded.

dovi in endange STATE OF IRELAND. Som novig, udt

Earl Suffolk stated the motives which had induced him to bring forward a motion upon this important subject, of which he had long since given notice. The noble earl went into a comprehensive view of the situation of that part of the united kingdom, more particularly as it regarded the middling and lower classes of the community, who were almost wholly composed of Roman catholics. Their grievances, if inquired into, would be found many and heavy. The noble earl first touched on the subject of tithes, which, from the mode in which they

were

were now generally collected, weighed most oppressively on the industrious farmers; it was a matter of wise expediency, and perhaps of urgent necessity, to inquire into the most ef fectual means of discovering a substitute, or at least of alleviating the distress which the present mode of levying them unavoidably carried with it. The noble earl corroborated his arguments on this point from the niost respectable authorities, more especially from that of the celebrated Dr. Paley, from whose works he quoted several extracts. The next subject which pressed upon his lordship's attention, was the condition of the Roman catholics, the prayer of whose petition he was sorry had not been complied with. The necessity, however, of their emancipation would every day become more conspicuous; and he could see no lasting tranquillity or permanent prosperity for Ireland, until that important object was more thoroughly inquired into, and indeed the whole of the petition fully acquiesced in. The next subject of inquiry should be the sordid and degrading state of misery and poverty in which the lower classes of the community in that country were suffered to languish. If their food, their raiment, their lodging were looked to; every thing bespoke the most abject and forlorn wretchedness; upon this part of his speech the noble earl dwelt with much emphasis, and deduced the cause of this extreme misery and indigence from the residence in this country of the absentee proprietors of land in Ireland, who employed under-landlords to parcel out their estates, and those again employed what were called middle-men, who were the chief instruments of the oppression of the poor, and without the suppression of which odious description of men, it was impossible for the country to thrive and be happy. The noble earl, after bringing to bear upon these points a great variety of authorities both from the speeches of distinguished members in the two houses of parliament, who had delivered their opinions more pointedly upon the matter, and from the writings of many celebrated authors both living and dead, concluded with moving, that an humble address be presented to his majesty, praying that he would be graciously pleased to give instructions that commissioners be appointed to inquire. into the state of that part of the united kingdom called Ireland, and that they do report respecting the state of each county, which report should be laid before his majesty and the two houses of parliament.

The Earl of Limerick rose to offer a few observations on the

matter

matter and tendency of the noble earl's speech. As to the matter of it, he could not well conceive from what sources it was derived; it certainly did not apply to the present state of Ireland, though in some degree it might be applicable to its former situation. He had lived the greater part of his life in that country, and nothing occurred to his observation to justify the statement of the noble earl. No man could entertain more personal respect for the noble earl than he did: he must, however, be allowed to say, that the tendency of his speech was of the most mischievous nature, especially at a time like the present. The subject of tithes was not one to be handled in the manner in which it was treated by the noble earl; as little was he justified in saying that any cause of the misery of the lower classes of the Irish people, arose from the ill management of the estates of absentees, and from any want of feeling on their part for the interests of their country; on the contrary, their absence was principally occasioned by attendance to their parliamentary duty, and by the most anxious tenderness to whatever concerned the interests of their country at large. As to the other topics touched upon by the noble earl, he should not detain the house in remarking upon them, as they had lately undergone one of the longest, the most minute and dispassionate discussions that he remembered ever to have taken place in either house of parliament. Under these impressions he felt it his duty to oppose the motion of the noble earl.

The Duke of Norfolk was ready to subscribe to every sentiment that had fallen from his noble relative, except to what he had advanced respecting tithes; that was a subject of the most delicate and important nature, and could not be lightly touched upon by any man who felt the necessary and indissoluble connection which subsisted in the constitution of this country between church and state. Tithes formed the corner stone of that establishment and connection. As to the observations urged by the noble earl who spoke last against the motion, he could not consider them of much weight. He was ready to allow that the question on the catholic petition had undergone a very full, fair, and minute discussion, and though one of those who voted against the majority on that question, he was now ready to say that it was closed as it ought to have been done. But even from the arguments adduced to that effect he could derive abundant reason for entertaining the motion of his noble relative, because it went to procure new

matter

matter, by which, hereafter, more accurately to judge of the expediency or propriety of acceding in a less or greater degree to the prayer of the Roman catholic petition. On these grounds, the motion of his noble relative should have his cordial support.

Lord Hawkesbury fully acquiesced in the observations that had fallen from the noble duke on the subject of tithes, and was happy to have so grave an authority on his side on such a question. Most undoubtedly tithes were as much and as fairly the property of the church as any landed property that belonged to any noble lord in that house. Indeed, were it now to be considered for the first time what species of property should more particularly be attached to the support of the church establishment, he knew of none in its nature, and all the circumstances that accompanied it, so peculiarly adapted for the maintenance of that establishment as connected with the state as tithes, as that species of property now existed, because it bore so near a connection to the property belonging to the other descriptions of the community, and was not liable to those fluctuations. which might endanger that permanent degree of respectability in which it was desirable that the clergy should live. As to the other topics of the noble earl's speech, they had already undergone ample discus sion; and were there no other reason for opposing the mo tion, the lateness of the session was a sufficient one in his mind, as neither time nor a fullness of attendance could be now expected, for a satisfactory discussion of such important

matters.

Earl Suffolk observed, in reply, that what he said on the subject of tithes was never meant to have the tendency im→ puted to it. As little did he intend to impute any blame in his remarks upon absentees, to any of the noble lords who left their country in order to attend their duty in parliament. He thought the motives of his motion in other respects, rested on the strongest and the most urgent grounds, and he should; therefore, persist in it.

The question was then put upon it, and the motion was ne gatived without a division.

The house then went again into a committee upon the sti pendiary curates' bill, when after going through a few clauses, the house adjourned.

HOUSE