The lottery bill, the militia pay and clothing bill, the militia adjutants' bill, the militia subalterns' bill, and some other bills, were read a third time and passed; as was also the Irish commissioners' bill, after a few observations from the Earl of Suffolk relative to the barrack department in Ireland and this country.

The turnpike act amendment bill was also read a third time and passed, after leaving out, on the motion of the Duke of Norfolk, the clause which gave the whole penalty to be applied to the repairs of the road.

The Earl of Suffolk presented a petition from the churchwardens and inhabitants of St. Pancras against the St. Pancras poor bill: but in consequence of some informality it was withdrawn, for the purpose of being presented again the next day.

HIS MAJESTY'S MESSAGE.

The order of the day for taking into consideration his majesty's gracious communication of the preceding day being read,

Lord Mulgrave rose, and stated that in making the motion. which he should have the honour of submitting to the house, for an humble address to his majesty on his most gracious message, it would not be necessary for him to trouble their lordships with a single preliminary observation. It was not his wish to frame the address in such a manner as to convey a pledge on the part of the house to approve of any specific mode of proceeding which might be adopted, but merely to confine it to an expression, which, he was conscious, every one of their lordships felt, of their readiness to concur in such measures as might be calculated to preserve the honour and safety of the country, and be conducive to the general interests of Europe. As he was not aware that any objection would be made to such a motion, he should not attempt to anticipate any argument which it might be possible to urge against it; but if it should be objected to he should reserve what he had to say till he heard the nature of the objections. He therefore moved, That an humble address be presented to his majesty, begging that his majesty would be pleased to accept the thanks of that house for his most gracious message, and assuring his majesty of the cordial support of that house, in enabling his majesty to adopt such steps as might be best calculated for the safety of this country and the general interests of Europe.The question being put,

The

The Earl of Carysfort said it would be in the recollection of their lordships, that at the commencement of the session it was stated in his majesty's speech that negotiations were going on between this country and some of the continental powers, particularly Russia. Six months had elapsed since that period, and the only result was the present message, by. which it appeared that nothing with respect to this subject had yet been brought to a conclusion. The message he understood to be intended as the foundation of a vote of credit, and of a larger vote than any that had hitherto been demanded. He was authorized to say this, and that the vote now asked for was no less than the enormous sum of five millions: and this too without its being known to parliament whether his majesty's ministers had taken any steps to secure continental connexions, for the purpose of carrying on the war; or whether they had done any thing for the purpose of leading to a negotiation for peace; or what progress they had made towards either of these purposes. In considering this subject, he could not avoid looking at the conduct of ministers for a few years past. It seemed to have been the policy of the late ministers to separate this country entirely from the continent, a policy which they brought to bear in its fullextent, by means of the peace of Amiens. By that treaty they completely abandoned the continent to its fate. He rejoiced he was among those who warned the house at that time of the dangerous consequences of that treaty, to which the eyes of the house were now open. Not content with thus abandoning the continent, the ministers of that day gave up the pledges which they held in their hands for the faithful conduct of the enemy, appearing to consider that as a peace which it was evident could only be considered as a fearful truce. Had those pledges remained in our hands, he contended that we should either have had some security for the peace being maintained, or that we should have begun a war with greater advantages, having those places in our hands which we could not now gain possession of without a great sacrifice of blood and treasure. War, however, soon afterwards commenced, and endeavours had since been made to obtain continental co-operation; but when a large vote of credit was asked for, and confidence demanded for his majesty's ministers, he would ask what was our situation now, compared with the commencement of the war? has it not, instead of better, been rendered worse? At the commencement of the war our fleets were triumphant in every sea, and all the nemy's

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enemy's fleets were in a state of blockade; and it was boasted that we had a military force of 7 or 800,000 men. What, however, was now the case? The enemy's fleets were triumphant in every sea; they sailed without molestation, carried terror and dismay to our foreign possessions, and returned without the slightest molestation. With our army, also, we had done nothing; not only were the enemy's possessions not injured, but no attempt whatever had been made upon any part of them, whilst the menace of invasion was brought home to our own doors. Was it therefore surprising that he should refuse to repose confidence in ministers under whom the country had been brought into such a situation? It was peculiarly the province of parliament to watch over the conduct of his majesty's ministers. Their lordships, in particular, were his majesty's hereditary counsellors, and nothing could be more desirable at the present crisis than the advice of that house and of parliament. Instances were not wanting where the king had communicated to parliament the progress of a negotiation with the continental powers. In the reign of William III. parliament took upon itself to advise his majesty with respect to negotiation with certain powers on the continent, and his majesty, in reply, promised to communicate to parliament the state and progress of such negotiation. Such a practice was not therefore new, and something else was wanting in the present instance, before he could agree to place that unlimited confidence in ministers which they seemed to require. Nothing could be conceived to be more proper, under the present circumstances of the country, than that the ádvice of parliament should be taken upon the subject, and that ministers should act under that advice. With this view he should move as an amendment to the motion of the noble lord to leave out all the words after the word message, and to insert a prayer that his majesty would be pleased not to prorogue his parliament, until he should be enabled to make some communication respecting our relations with the powers of the continent, and also with respect to his views and prospects in the contest in which we are at present engaged.

Lord Mulgrave, not having had any intimation of the nature of the motion which the noble lord intended to make, was not much prepared to answer the points which the noble lord had urged. He could not however discover that the topics touched upon in the noble lord's speech had much connection with the motion with which he had concluded, He certainly should not follow the noble lord over the wide field VOL III. 1805.

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of discussion which he had chosen; nor did he now think it necessary to discuss the merits of the treaty of Amiens. The noble lord had however alluded to our army and navy, and upon these topics he should say a few words. With respect to the army, in the course of the last sixteen months, no less than 37,000 men had been added to our disposable force, and 17,000 men had been sent to our foreign possessions. No charge therefore whatever could in any fairness lie against ministers for not taking every means of providing for the defence of our foreign possessions. As to our navy, we had now 93 ships of the line in commission, exclusive of 12 fifty gun ships, whilst the number of ships of the line of the enemy, including the Spanish and Dutch, did not amount to more than 81. Our force therefore of this description was fully equal to all the purposes for which it was wanted. As to the enemy's fleets getting out of their ports it was not to be supposed for a moment that we could at all times and under all circumstances prevent that, but no sooner was the sailing of the enemy's flects known than orders were immediately given, and squadrons were in readiness to pursue them. He laboured under so severe an indisposition, that he could scarcely address their lordships, but he was anxious to state that the negotiation between his majesty and the continental powers was not brought to that conclusion which could allow of any communication being made to that house. His lordship's indisposition increasing, he was compelled to apologize to the house and sit down.

Lord Hawkesbury trusted, he said, their lordships would excuse him in addressing them, under the circumstances of the indisposition of his noble friend. It did not appear to him that any one substantial reason had been urged by the noble lord on the other side, why the amendment which he had moved should be adopted. He should not attempt to follow the noble lord over all the topics which he had urged; but as the noble lord had alluded to the treaty of Amiens, he could not suffer that to pass by without some observation. It was certainly by no means the fact that the ministry with whom he had the honour to act upon that occasion, ever had the least idea of abandoning all thoughts of continental connections by signing that treaty. The fate of the continent was not decided by the treaty of Amiens, but by the treaty of Luneville. After the signature of the latter treaty it was so evident that nothing could be done on the continent, that it was thought the wisest policy to sign the treaty of Amiens,

in order to give this country time to recruit its resources, so that we might afterwards with greater efficacy co-operate with the powers of the continent, when they also should have, in some measure, recovered, whilst at the same time it would prove whether or not peace could be maintained with France, which without that experiment could not have been ascertained. With these views that treaty was made, and he still contended for their justice and expediency. With respect to the motion of his noble friend, it appeared to him to grow out of the address presented by that house to his majesty at the opening of the session, and to pledge the house to nothing more than they then pledged themselves to. His majesty then communicated that negotiations were going on between his majesty and certain continental powers, particularly Russia. His majesty now communicated that those negotiations had not yet been brought to that result which he could communicate. to the house. The address only went to pledge the house to a continuation of that concurrence, to enable his majesty to take such measures, and enter into such engagements as the exigencies of affairs might require. The message besides was a usual measure at this advanced period of the session, for the purpose of founding upon it a vote of credit to enable his majesty to take advantage of whatever circumstances might arise in the course of the recess, or to meet unexpected contingencies, which vote of credit, if agreed to by the other house, would come up to their lordships for their approbation in the appropriation act. With this view of the subject, therefore, he could not conceive any objection to the address, nor in his mind had any yet been urged which was at all solid or substantial. He called upon their lordships' to place a confidence in his majesty's ministers, on the fair ground of exertions made in the public service, and he trusted the house would agree to the motion of his noble friend.

The Earl of Carlisle considered the amendment proposed by his noble friend of so simple a nature, that he thought there could be no hesitation in agreeing to it, as it merely proposed to ask his majesty to suffer parliament to continue sitting for some time longer, in order that they might have the information constitutionally given to them of the result of the negotiations with the continental powers. This was, he conceived, in many views of the subject, to be considered as the right mode of acting. It could not be supposed for a moment that he could be so absurd as to require information relative to the negotiation whilst it was depending; all he wished was, that instead of being prorogued, parliament might be allowed to

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adjourn,