adjourn, in order that a communication of the result of the negotiation now depending, might be made to it as soon as possible after such information had been received. It was well known to what purposes information upon similar subjects might be turned in this country, and it was therefore highly desirable, in that point of view, that the information upon this subject, when received, should be communicated to parlia ment and the public with all possible dispatch. The state of Ireland also was another material consideration, although, thank God, nothing serious had followed the agitation of the catholic claims. If the amendment of his noble friend was agreed to, there would then also be no necessity for the bill which the noble secretary of state had signified his intention to bring in, and which, perhaps, might not pass the house of commons, for continuing the effect of the proceedings relative to Mr. Justice Fox to the next session, as they might then be continued by adjournment, without the necessity of any bill of that nature. The amendment proposed by his noble friend might be a novel measure, but it was called for by the novelty of our situation. He did not mean to impute any blame to ministers, on account of the sailing of the enemy's fleets, but it was unfortunate, and still more so that we should have no intelligence of their course, and that his majesty's ministers should be entirely ignorant of their destination. He had heard, however, rumours upon this subject, which he hoped the noble lord whom he now saw for the first time in his place, (Lord Barham,) would contradict. He had heard it rumoured that vessels had been given what was considered as the best cruising ground, without reference to their stations, when they ought to have been employed in watching the enemy. He hoped, however, that this rumour would be contradicted by the noble lord to whom he had alluded, and declared to be, as very probably it was, entirely destitute of foundation. With respect, however, to what had been stated by the noble lord as to the number of our ships of the line, he believed it would be found that only three additional ships of the line were put into commission during the last year. With respect to the army, he admitted that the draughts from the militia had been of use, but with the exception of this measure, what had been done to augment our army, or increase our disposable force? There was still another reason for agreeing to the amendment of his noble friend, and that was the dissensions which were known to exist in his majesty's cabinet. Instead of being employed in considering how the country was to be extricated from from its difficulties, almost the whole time of ministers was known to be taken up in endeavouring to reconcile disputes which were continually taking place. These things were notorious, every person in the street talked of them, he could not meet a person in the street that he knew, but he was asked who's in, and who's out? he could only answer I don't know, but the Rochefort squadron have been out, have done great mischief to our West India possessions, and have returned home unmolested; the Toulon squadron is out, and gone God knows where, or what mischief it may do. For these reasons he should vote for the amendment of his noble friend. Earl Camden conceived this to be a mere usual proceeding with respect to a vote of credit, nor could he discover any reason for the amendment moved by the noble lord. The two poiats which had been chiefly insisted upon by the noble lord who moved the amendment, and by the noble lord who had just sat down, related to the army and navy. With regard to the foriner. he could confirm the statements of his noble friend, that since the 5th January, 1804, thirty-seven thousand men had been added to our disposable force, and that seventeen thousand men had been sent to defend our foreign possessions. Added to this our whole effective regular force amounted to 174,899 men, which was 3,000 more than the greatest army we had during the last war; and of these but a small part were limited in their service. With respect to the navy his noble friend was in an error, as instead of 93 there were now 98 ships of the line in actual service, besides 12 fifty gun ships, whilst last year there were only 8 Since last June 170 vessels of different descriptions had been put into commission, whilst 72 had been lost, taken, or broken up as unfit for service, leaving a balance therefore of near one hundred vessels added to the navy of Great Britain. He gave these details instead of the noble lord who had been called upon by the noble earl who had just sat down, the former having been so short a time in the house. These facts, however, spoke for themselves, as to the exertions of his majesty's ministers; nor could he omit paying a just tribute of applause to the indefatigable exertions of the noble viscount (Melville) who lately quitted the admiralty, and who had been unceasingly employed, during his continuance in office, in endeavouring to place the navy upon that footing which the exigencies of the country required. His exertions had been followed up by those of the noble lord now at the head of the admiralty, whose endeavours were unremittingly directed to the same end. Having made these statements, in answer to the asser tions made by the noble lords on the other side, he should conclude by expressing his determination to vote against the amendment. The Earl of Darnley could not agree in the conclusions drawn by the noble lord from his statements, nor in his determination to vote against the amendment. As to the army, after deducting the draughts from the militia, nothing had been done to increase our disposable force, except by means of the additional force act, the only measure of the present administration calculated for that purpose, and which, when he last addressed their lordships upon the subject, had produced only 300 men. With respect to the number of vessels mentioned by the noble lord to have been added to the navy, he had endeavoured to prove to their lordships upon a former occasion, and he was still of opinion, that many of those which had been purchased were unfit for the purposes of the public service. When, however, he saw the fleets of the enemy sailing in every direction, and ministers unable even to give a guess as to their destination, he thought it impossible that there could be the least hesitation in agreeing to the amendment proposed by the noble lord. The reason also mentioned by the noble lord (Carlisle) as to the disputes and dissensions notoriously known to exist in the cabinet, was with him likewise a cogent reason for agreeing to the amendment. The Earl of Westmorland had listened attentively to noble lords on the other side, but he had been unable to discover any reason whatever for the new and extraordinary measure which was now proposed, namely, to interfere with the king's prerogative, by praying his majesty not to prorogue his parliament; and until when did noble lords wish that the session should be continued? Was it to be continued until they should be pleased to address his majesty to put an end to it, or did they mean that parliament should continue permanently sitting? Certainly no substantial reason had been alleged for so novel and extraordinary a measure; neither had the measure itself which was proposed, been stated in any intelligible shape. Noble lords had blamed ministers for suffering the enemy's fleets to escape, and upon this subject he expected that a noble friend of his in the blue riband (Earl Spencer) would rise to defend himself. During the period that that noble lord was at the head of the admiralty, the Brest fleet came out of port and got to Ireland without molestation; the Toulon fleet got safe to Egypt, an expedition which gave occasion to the glorious victory gained on that coast; so at this period the enemy's fleets have escaped; but as no blame was imputable imputable to that noble lord when at the head of the admiralty on account of the escape of the enemy's fleets, so no blame was imputable now. Bad weather, false intelligence, and a variety of accidents might contribute to drive off our squadrons, or lead them upon a false chase and permit the escape of the enemy; but the moment that the escape of the enemy's fleets was known, squadrons were dispatched after them. It was true the Rochefort squadron had escaped, had gone to the West Indies, and come back again without molestation; but the circumstances attendant upon this expedition, proved the exertions and the care of the ministers for the defence of our distant possessions. That that squadron could make no impression upon any one of our islands was to be attributed to the excellent state of defence in which ministers had taken care they should be placed. No blame could be imputable to ministers for what was in its nature unavoidable, and which arose from circumstances that could not be controlled. No case whatever had, in his opinion, been made out which could warrant so extraordinary a measure as that now proposed, and, therefore, he should oppose the amendment. Earl Spencer was in entire ignorance with regard to the objects for which so large a vote of credit was wanted, as that which he was authorized to say would be proposed, namely, 5,000,000l. but it was that very ignorance which in duced him to oppose the motion for giving a pledge such as that demanded by the noble secretary of state, as he could not place confidence in those ministers by whom it was asked. He declared he had not confidence enough in his majesty's ministers to entrust them with the disposal of this money. The very circumstance of the enemy's fleets having been suffered to sail from their ports, without their destination being known, was a sufficient ground why no confidence should be placed in them. On the subject of the navy he must say he did not know where blame lay, and, therefore, he did not impate blame on that account to any individual. With regard to the military force, the country expected a great deal more to have been done in that department than was done. Upon the whole, it was impossible not to feel a strong suspicion that there was no union of sentiment among the members of his majesty's government; and they were for that reason undeserving of confidence. On the ground, therefore, that parliament was in a situation it had never been in before, and that a sum so large as this had never been left to the discretionary disposal of ministers, he would support the amendinent of the noble lord, which required nothing more more than that the king should not prorogue the parlia ment, as long as the government stood in need of the advice and assistance of the members of that house, who were the hereditary counsellors of the crown. Lord Harrowby contended, that the government was justly entitled to claim this confidence. The session of parliament might be continued the whole summer, but it might be impossible to do any thing in that time. There was hardly any former war, in which measures similar to the present had not becu proposed; and there was no reason to suppose that the negotiations now carrying on with Russia would not be brought to a speedy conclusion. The Earl of Suffolk insisted that since the commencement of this war, ministers had not done any one thing that tended to bring it to a conclusion, and the house had a right to call them to an account for their conduct, and to take care that they should not be suffered to apply the public money to im proper purposes. The Earl of Carnarvon-I shall not detain your lordships with the long history of the gross mismanagement of the late administration, or of that which succeeded (recomposed out of nearly the same materials) with as little title to confidence as the former, because it is sufficient to the question under discussion, that such a surrender and transfer of parliamentary trust as is required of us, should not, or ever has been made to any administration, whatever degree of confidence they merited from the public. The present question, though of great and momentous importance, may be reduced to a very narrow compass, namely, whether we should surrender our parliamentary trust to the executive government. I do not think the case has been fairly stated, or considered on its true ground; that it may not be thought a new question, it has been treated as a vote of credit, frequently granted at the end of a session: the least reflection will convince your lordships that it has not the least resemblance to a vote of credit, which is grounded on principles the most opposite; a vote of credit has alone been granted (without any instance to the contrary) to supply possible deficiencies in the provision for expenditure, on services known, stated, and approved in parliament; and for the services of the whole year so stated and approved, has never exceeded two millions and a half. The present application from the throne differs not only in its magnitude (for it is understood that five millions is the sum intended), but it is for purposes neither known or approved by parliament; it is not stated whether it is to obtain peace or prosecute the war. A |