should be paid at three months. This regulation did away the discount, and was the means of saving many millions ta the nation. It was intended not to prevent the issue of the bills, but to remedy the depreciation of the paper, and to facilitate the public service. It happened that some of these bills could not be paid at the end of the three months, from causes which the committee about to be appointed would inquire into, without breaking in on the money reserved for the expences of the dock-yards, wages, and other expences, an immediate fund for which was indispensable. It was necessary, therefore, to issue fresh bills to those of the former holders who were willing to accept them as a substitute, and to raise money on the credit of others for those who insisted on payment. This amounted to nothing more at the utmost with respect to the holder than the payment at six months of what was before paid at fifteen. The money being raised for the purpose of paying bills issued for naval purposes, was bona. fide applied to naval services, and fairly accounted for to parliament as such. The hon. and learned gentleman on this ground supposed a fictitious account, calculated to destroy the credit of all documents laid before parliament from the public offices. He supposed the documents purported that the bills were for one service, while the committee would find they were for another. There was no list of the particular application of the sums of money voted for naval services laid before the house, only an account of the collective amount of the sum granted, stating that it was applied to naval services. It was to be supposed, however, from the professional habits of the hon. and learned gentleman, that he would not lightly prefer a charge of such serious violation of the law; and therefore it was to be expected, that from whatsoever source he might have derived them, he should come to the committee prepared to give proofs of the charges he had made; or, in failure, that he should return to the house prepared to retract them. It would be recollected that the year 1800 was a year of peculiar difficulties. We had an internal visitation of scarcity, which was not only a cause of general distress, but had the effect of enhancing the public expences connected with the feeding of our fleets and armies in a very great degree indeed. In that year also, towards the close of it, we were menaced with a confederacy of the northern powers, who had assumed the character of hostility to us on points essential to the honour and safety of our empire. Great exertions became necessary in consequence, for the equipment of our fleet, and

the

the services of the noble lord, then at the head of the marine department (Earl Spencer) on the occasion, would ever be remembered with gratitude. The consequence, however, was great difficulty, and a great increase of cost in most articles of naval stores. The increase in cost was not less than from 40 to 80 per cent. This expence did not go on, as the hon. and learned gentleman supposed, from March 1800 to May 1802. For the latter part of this period he was not responsible, but he was willing to take the responsibility upon himself. The hon. and learned gentleman had fallen into a mistake on this point; and from the manner in which the report adverted to it, there was reason to think the commissioners themselves had made a similar mistake. The issues the learned gentleman noticed so particularly, began in October 1800, and ended in March 1801. They ended as soon as the loan for that year afforded means of making arrangements for the payment of them. The other issue began in September 18or; the difficulties continued to the spring of 1802. The preliminaries of the peace had been negotiated in the early part of this period, but the definitive treaty was not concluded till near the end of it. No loan could be made while the price of stocks fluctuated in the uncertainty between the two periods, so as to leave no room for a satisfactory bargain. As soon as the loan afforded the means of an arrangement, it was made, and the issue had not been since recurred to. He thought it right, even in the present stage of the business, to offer this explanation. He wished for the inquiry, and he was sure it would be proved by the accounts the committee would have to refer to, that the conduct so much complained of, was not deserving of censure. As to the ninety day bills, that could not be thought a subject for grave inquiry. Perhaps the difference between eighty-nine and ninety days was allowed for in the bargain; or the contractors might have thought it so little, being only threepence halfpenny in one hundred pounds, as not to be worth attending to. Even Mr. Goldsmid, whom he mentioned with respect, accustomed as he was to calculations of this kind, had suffered this difference to pass without notice. It was therefore not to be wondered that it escaped the navy board; and it was hardly to have been expected that the house of commons would look to it with a microscopic The thing had been, besides, corrected before the committee of inquiry had been instituted. With respect to the secret service, he should not enter into it much. No disclosure could be made, consistently with a regard to

eye.

what

*

what was due to the public and that good faith due to the merits of the individual principally concerned; but he did not hesitate to say he was satisfied the committee would find it was a service which it was the duty of the government to promote, and that the merit of the individual principally concerned was deserving of the highest consideration. The circumstances did not admit of disclosure at the time, nor did they now. But the committee would report on the merits of the service, and that it was strictly naval in its nature, and intitled to be paid for directly out of the naval money, if it could have been disclosed at the time. This he was sure would be made out to the satisfaction of the house, and of the learned gentleman himself. Secret service money was not to be issued from the civil list, though sums occasionally voted in aid of the civil list may be so applied. The hon. and learned gentleman could not possibly think, that admirals or general cfficers on foreign stations were not at liberty to apply money to the purpose of procuring intelligence, and that such money may not be paid out of the sums voted for army or navy extraordinariés. As to the stone expedition, though the report of it may have reached Westminster hall, though it may have reached the ears of the hon. and learned gentlemen, unaccustomed as they were to such things, yet it may have been matter of public interest to keep it as secret as possible, particularly before it was completed. The circumstances of the other service he had alluded to, could not for a long time be made public; and possibly the committee may be of opinion that they never could be. Enough appeared to shew, that the stone expedition was known to the first lord of the admiralty, that it met his approbation, and that it was a service perfectly naval in its nature. He had great satisfaction in agreeing to a committee to inquire into the general matter of the report. When that general report should be brought up, as he believed it may be in a very few days, he would move for the appointment of a secret committee, consisting of five members, to inquire into the secret matter. On these grounds he should move, as an amendment, that a committee be appointed to inquire into the matter of the eleventh report, except so far as relates to the one hundred thousand pounds issued for secret naval service."

Mr. Fox should not feel it necessary to occupy the time of the house many minutes, as he did not mean to object to the division of the committee. As the right hon. gentleman, however, had thought proper to enter into a discussion of some

of

of the topics adverted to by his learned friend, he trusted he should be indulged in making a few observations. The right hon. gentleman seemed to think that part of his learned friend's argument unnecessary which stated, that a king of this country and his ministers should govern according to law. In this he differed from the right hon. gentleman, because there was no truth that should be more strongly impressed on the minds of ministers, than that the house had the right to exercise its constitutional control over the public expenditure. The more they should investigate, the more they would discover that the law of the land had been sacrificed to convenience. This practice had increased very considerably lately, and if not seasonably checked, might lead to consequences such as his hon. friend had stated. But they could not be carried to the extreme, as in the time of Charles II. because the sitting of parliament would be necessary in the end, in order to provide the means of paying the money thus raised. He was sure the right hon. gentleman would not disallow, that the most essential duty of that house was to take care that no money should be raised but in a manner approved by parliament, nor applied but to purposes for which it should be directed by parliament. The house had not given any approbation of the manner in which money had been raised by these bills. The right hon. gentleman had adverted to the manner in which navy bills were formerly issued, which practice he allowed to be bad, and had stated that the present mode had been adopted with a view to economy, and as not being inconsistent with the constitution. He had himself supported the right hon. gentleman's bills, because he be lieved the former practice unconstitutional, and inconsistent with economy in the public expenditure. That, too, had been the impression, he believed, of the right hon. gentleman himself when he first came into parliament, and took so meritorious a part in the committee on the extraordinaries of the army, he meant the committee of which the late Lord Camel-" ford had been chairman. It was then considered as injurious to, and inconsistent with the constitution. The right hon. gentleman had substituted bills at fifteen months, and afterwards at ninety days. This altered the law, and, therefore, in a constitutional view he could not deem it correct to renew the manner that had been practised before that alteration. There were many things that required further investigation, and particularly the manner in which this money had been finally paid. It should also be inquired into, whether these

n

navy bills might have been continued consistently with law. If such a mode were once to be admitted, it would amount to an issue of navy bills without the sanction of parliament. He had himself no doubt that the practice was contrary to law; but he should not then give any final opinion. It was a different case altogether, the suffering the extraordinaries of the army and the navy debt to accumulate, from the issue of these fictitious bills pretendedly issued for services specified, when they were really issued to raise money only. This was an irregularity which required investigation. As to the other point, that it was not worth referring to the committee the difference between the eighty-nine and ninety days discount, he agreed with the right hon. gentleman. But he did not think that the circumstance having escaped the notice of the Messrs. Goldsmids, gentlemen whom he had not the honour to know, but of whose conduct he had a high opinion, was any argument in justification of its being overlooked by the navy board, because undoubtedly, if these gentlemen had been informed that they had a right to the difference, they would have taken it. As to the secret service money, the right hon. gentleman had put it on a good footing, by proposing to refer the consideration of that part of the report to a secret committee. As to the secret services in general, he thought it extremely desirable that the sum expended should be accounted for on oath, in the same manner as money applied to such services from the civil list under the provisions of Mr. Burke's bill. As the executive government was the channel through which all the sums voted for the public service were to pass, it was extremely desirable that such sums should be accounted for to the house. But on this subject he should not say more till after further inquiry. It appeared to him from the report, that the order of the council had not been complied with in the expenditure of this naval secret service money, nor the authority of the lords of the admiralty attended to. As to the stone expedition, he was ready to admit that the first lord of the admiralty, if he disapproved of it, ought not to give it a kind of tacit consent. But then his consent should have been obtained in form and under his hand, after consulting him. upon it, and not by communicating it immediately and collaterally when determined on. The first lord of the admiralty should have signified his consent by his signature, and then have been responsible for the measure. He was glad that an inquiry was to take place on this and on other subjects, in order that it might be discovered in what respect the laws had

been