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1304

THE EARL OF ABERDEEN: He will have nothing whatever to do with the control of the financial department, as we are at present advised.

1303 The New War Department- {LORDS} The Ambulance Corps. changes. I understand that an announce- do with the control of the financial department was made last evening in the House ment of the Army? of Commons on the part of Her Majesty's Government, of their intention of forming the new office. I am further informed-if it is not irregular now to refer to the fact -that a new writ has been moved for the City of London in the room of the noble Lord who lately held the office of leader of the House of Commons on his acceptance of the office of President of the Council. I wish, therefore, to ask the noble Lord at the head of Her Majesty's Government whether I am right in supposing that that noble Lord has accepted the office of PresiIdent of the Council. It may not be improper to ask also, whether, if he has accepted it, he will still remain a Member of the House of Commons? and I wish further to ask Her Majesty's Government, with regard to the office of Secretary of State for the War Department, to explain to this House and to the country what are the precise functions and duties which it is proposed to devolve upon that office, how far they will interfere with or be superior to those of the departments now in existence, and whether the new Secretary of State will exercise a control over all matters connected with the administration of the military affairs of the country?

THE EARL of ABERDEEN: In answer to the noble Earl, I have first to inform him that my noble Friend the Member for the City of London has accepted the office of President of the Council, and that he will remain in the House of Commons. I have further to inform the noble Earl that it is intended that a division of the functions of the Secretary of State for War and for the Colonies shall take place, and will be carried into effect before the next meeting of the House. The functions of the Secretary of War will be those which are at present exercised by the Secretary of State for War and for the Colonies in the War Department. What further changes may hereafter take place in the administration of the Departments immediately concerned in the military service of the country I am not prepared to say; but the Secretary for the War Department will possess all those powers and exercise all those functions which are now exercised by my noble Friend near me, who is at present Secretary of State for War and for the Colonies.

THE EARL OF DERBY inquired whether the Secretary of State for the War Department was to have anything or nothing to The Earl of Derby

LORD PANMURE: I was somewhat interested in the debate which took place in this House a short time ago with regard to the establishment of a Minister of War; and I am happy to find that Her Majesty's Government have at last, owing to the opinions which have been expressed in both Houses of Parliament, and also owing to public opinion as it has been expressed through the press, adopted that course which will eventually turn out to be the only one by which military affairs can be administered in this country. I am glad to hear from my noble Friend that it is not intended to constitute a Minister of War as a mere decoy to deceive the public. I have no desire to see things done hastily; but if the office of Minister of War is to be established, the officer who fills it must have a department as well as a name. In my opinion, as soon as it can be conveniently done, the Minister of War should take charge of the administration of the finances of the Army; he should take charge of the Commissariat Department; and, in my opinion, he should also have transferred to him, as soon as possible, the management and direction of the militia force of this country. I do not at all wish to see the functions of the Commander in Chief interfered with as far as regards the executive government of the Army, nor do I wish to put into the hands of the Government the administration of what is called the patronage of the Army. For six years I had experience as to the manner in which that patronage was administered under the present system; and I believe that it was never more honourably or more efficiently administered than when it was in the hands of the late Duke of Wellington, and, under his orders, of Lord Raglan. I have every reason to believe that the same system of administration is pursued by the present Commander in Chief, and I have no desire that the Government should interfere in the matter at all; but if we are to have a Minister of War, he ought to know what is going on in every military department of the Government-whether at the Horse Guards, the Ordnance Office, or any other department-and he ought to act by his own authority, not under that either of the Colo

nial or of the Home Secretary. If the troops are to be moved they should be moved by his authority-that is, by his authority to the Commander in Chief to move them. All my observations aim at making this Ministry of War a department that will exist in time of peace as well as in time of war, and that will, at all times, have control over everything connected with the military administration of the country.

THE EARL OF DERBY: I think it is desirable that the noble Earl should state more in detail the duties that are to be performed by the new Secretary of State; as it appears to me that, if he is not to have control over the financial department of the Army, and is to have nothing to do with the patronage of the Army, the new Secretary will have something very nearly approaching to a sinecure in time of peace. I wish to ask whether the new Secretary of State is to be deprived of the control over the finances and the patronage of the Army; and, if so, whether it is intended to appoint that officer only during time of war?

THE EARL OF ABERDEEN: The Secretary of State will not be deprived of the control over the finances or the patronage of the Army, as he now possesses neither the one nor the other; but he will have the control over the whole administration of the Army, and that will be found quite sufficient to employ his utmost exertions, certainly during war. As for what may happen in time of peace, the noble Earl will, perhaps, have the goodness to wait until time of peace before asking us to settle what will then be the functions of the new Secretary of State; and if that time happily should ever come, we shall then be able to say more satisfactorily what his functions shall be. At present it is quite sufficient that he has ample duties to perform, and I have no doubt the division which has taken place of the functions of the War and Colonial Departments will be such as to add to the efficiency of the pub. lic service.

THE MILITARY KNIGHTS OF WINDSOR. THE EARL OF ALBEMARLE, in moving for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the administration of the funds of the charities connected with the Military Order of St. George and the Garter, and more especially with the Royal grant of King Edward III., commonly called the "Old Dotation," and that of Queen Elizabeth, commonly called the

"New Dotation," said, that the issue which had to be tried was, how much of those funds belonged of right to the Dean and Canons of Windsor, and for how much of the funds the Dean and Canons were trustees for the Military Knights of Windsor. He brought the question forward upon four distinct grounds. He asked for an inquiry, in the first place, on behalf of the prerogative of the Crown, which he considered had been violated by a diversion of the funds of the Sovereign of the Order of the Garter from their legitimate objects; and, in the second place, on behalf of the taxpayers of England, who had been assessed for a series of years for the expenses of the buildings connected with this charity, while there had been ample funds belonging to the charity itself and especially intended for that purpose. He asked for it, thirdly, on behalf of the British Army, because he believed that, after the full satisfaction of all demands, a fund would be placed at the disposal of the Crown, as he hoped, sufficiently large to restore the twenty-six knights, whose appointments had not been filled up, but who had been appointed under the Statute of Edward III. He moved, lastly, on behalf of the present Military Knights of Windsor, a body of gentlemen who had performed the greatest and most important services to this country, but which he would not now detain their Lordships by alluding to. He was compelled to call the attention of their Lordships to a period of five centuries ago, when an event took place which had been made the subject of one of the frescoes which decorated the chamber in which they were sitting, namely, the investiture of the first Knight of the Garter. He had no observation to offer with respect to the charming romantic legend concerning the Order, nor with the quaint badge, and the equally quaint device which decorated the knee of the Black Prince. It sufficed him (the Earl of Albemarle) to say that the Royal father of that Prince, three years after the battle of Cressy, instituted the Order of the Garter, to which two descriptions of knights were to belong, the one being the Knights Companions of the Order, and the other the Poor, or, as they are now called, the Military Knights of Windsor. The object of the institution of the Order was twofold. In the first place it was the creation of “Knights Companions, to afford encouragement and reward to persons descended from a series

of ancestry of noble blood." In the second place, to establish "a perpetual charity for the subsistence of veteran knights who had been reduced to poverty in the wars." Edward III. assigned lands for that purpose, and grants had also been made for its support, not only by the Crown, but by some of the most illustrious members of the Order. In the letters patent of Edward III. the institution was said to have been founded for

"Fifteen other canons and twenty-four poor knights, impotent of themselves, or inclining to poverty, to be perpetually maintained of the goods or possessions of the said chapel, perpetually serving

Christ under the command of the said custos or warden, and their cause to be received, as well as the canons and knights as other ministers of the said chapel, as was promised; and that His said Majesty thereby decreed, ordained, and by his Royal authority, as much as in him lay, established for ever."

It was necessary to observe here that the canons and the knights were placed upon an equality, and their pay, their privileges, and their perquisites were intended to be as nearly equal as possible; their dress was the same, the duties were the same, the same attendance in the chapel was required from them, and the oaths administered to them was not the one administered to the inferior officers, minor canons, and other persons of a lower description. Such appeared to have been the intentions of the Royal founder; but a very short time afterwards those intentions seem to have been frustrated, and a war to have been, in consequence, carried on, even longer than the war with which we were now threatened. For instance, there were a certain number of perquisites especially belonging to the Poor Knights and others, which they shared with the dean and chapter. Among them were such things as the banners, swords, mantlets, and helmets of the deceased Knight Companions, but the dean and canons had sold all this armour, &c., and put the money into their pockets. The interference of some right reverend or most reverend visitors of the charity had been sought, and all the Chancellors of England who had acted as visitors had given their awards in favour of the Poor Knights against the dean and chapter. Another perquisite to which the knights were entitled was a certain number of herrings. The town of Yarmouth was then, as now, celebrated for its herrings, and the corporation was required by Statute to supply the chapel of Windsor with a last of herrings annually in the season of The Earl of Albemarle

Lent. The dean and canons, however, Lprived their military brethren of their sta of even this Lenten entertainment, and at up all the herrings themselves. Comply was made to Adam, Bishop of St. Dav as Visitor of the Chapel, in the seeoc. year of Richard the Second, and in per petual memory of this act of gluttony the part of the dean and canons of the day, their successors of the present ? are compelled to pay to each knig 6s. 8d. a year in lieu of a herring s day. By the 19th of the College Sta tutes it was provided that, after certan payments to the alms knights and others, a third part of the overplus or remainder of the revenues of the chapel and college should be set aside every year for extraor dinary cases, as fire, murrain, the onera capella incumbentia, &c., or in defence of the rights of the college and chapel, or for increasing their revenues. It was desirable to know what had become of that surplus, and how far it was chargeable for the repairs of the houses of the knights, which formed a part of the chapel, and which repairs are now made at the expense of the taxpayers of England. He (the Earl of Albemarle) wished now to show that, notwithstanding the disincorporating Act of Edward the Fourth, the Knights of Windsor always had an existence. Henry VIII. appointed a man called Peter Narbonne to be one of the alms knights, and requested the dean and canons to give him a maintenance, and they gave him a pension of 20 marks per annum, on condition that he should relinquish it when the King should grant or settle lands on the college and chapel for the provision of the knights, as he had promised them to do, or given them to understand he would do; and thereupon King Henry VIII. wrote and sent to the dean and canons a letter, dated on or about the 18th day of July, 151, giving them thanks for having conferred the pension on Peter Narbonne, and promising them not to burden them with any more requests of that sort, but to grant and settle lands for the maintenance of the said alms knights. Now, it was evident that at this time Henry VIII. did not contemplate making the dean and canons even the trustees of the lands with which he had promised to endow the Poor Knights. In the year 1546 the dean and canons, by an indenture, surrendered and conveyed the manor and rectory of Ivor, in the county of Bucks, and other hereditaments, to the

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yearly value of 160l. 2s. 4d., to King | revoked his will. Henry VIII. in exchange for other heredi- ticular attention, because as lately as June taments, which were to be conveyed to them by His Majesty. On the 9th of June, 1853, the Dean and Canons of Windsor state, in their Report to the Cathedral and Capitular Commissioners, that "By the will of King Henry VIII. certain lands were devised to the Dean and Canons of Windsor." Now, the only paragraph in the will, which is dated 30th of December, 1546, referring to the chapel of Windsor, is as follows

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Also, we wool that, with as convenient spede as may be doon ufter our departure out of this world, if it be not doon in our liefe, that the dean and chanons of our free chapele of St. George, within our castle of Windsor, shall have manoures, landes, tenements, and spiritual promotions, to the yearly value of six hundred poundes over all charges made sure to them and their successors for ever, upon these conditions hereafter ensuing. And for the due and full accomplishment and performance of all other things contained with the same, in the forme of an indenture signed with our own hand, which shall be passed by way of covenant for that purpose, between the said deane and canons and our executors, if it pass not between us and the said deane and canons in our liefe, that is to say, the deane and canons, and their successors for ever, shall find two prestes to say masses at the said aulter, to be made where we have before appointed our tomb to be made and stand and also, after our deceasse kepe yearly four solem fine obites for us within the said college of Windsour, and at every of the same obite to cause a solempne sermon to be made, and also at several of the said obites to give to poor people in almez tenne pounds. And also to give for ever yearly to thirtene poor men, which shall be called Poor Knights,' to every of twelfpens every day, and once in the year yearly for ever a long gowne of white cloth, with the garter upon the breast embroidered with a shield and cross of Sainte George within the garter, and a mantle of red cloth; and to such one of the said thirtene poor knights as shall be appointed to be hed and governor of them 31. 63. 8d. yearly for ever, over and besides the said twelfpennies by the daye. And also to cause every Sunday in the yere, for ever, a sermon to be made for ever at Windsor aforesaid, as in the said indenture of covenant shall be more fully and particularly expressed, willing, charging, and requiring our son Prince Edwarde, all our exehereafter, all other heirs and successors, which shall be kings of this realme, as they will aunswer before Almighty God at the dreadful day of judgment, that they and every of them do see that the said indenture and assurance, to be made between

cutors and counsaillors which shall be named

us and the said deane and canons, or between

them and our executors, and all things therein contained, may be duly put in execution and observed and kept for ever perpetually, according to

our last will and testament."

King Henry VIII. died on the 23rd of January, 1547, without having altered or

in last year the dean and canons of Windsor had claimed the lands under the devise of Henry VIII. If that claim could be substantiated, the labours of the Committee which he asked their Lordships to appoint would be brought to a speedy termimination. From all the information he had been able to collect, it did not appear that there had been anything like a conveyance in fee to the dean and canons as was pretended. Altogether he was justified in contending that, as far as related to the reign of Henry VIII., the dean and canons had no claim to any of "the New Dotation." On the 24th of February the executors of the late King and the Ministers of the young King Edward VI., together with the Judges and the law officers of the Crown, assembled to carry into effect the wishes of the deceased monarch with respect to the Poor Knights, among other things. In pursuance thereof, on the 2nd of August, 1547, Sir Edward North, then Chancellor of the Court of Augmentation of the King's revenues, issued instructions for preparing a conveyance, in pursuance of the will of Henry VIII., and, after stating the rental of certain hereditaments, mentioned at 8127. 12s. 9d., proceeded to declare that from that sum was to be deducted 1601. 2s. 4d. for the manor of Ivor, and 6001. for the gift in the will of Henry VIII. It was evident, therefore, that the executors of King Henry VIII. entertained no doubt as to the construction which ought to be put upon his will. The Poor Knights had always placed much reliance on an important deednamely, an indenture of King Edward VI.; but the deed could not be found, and many persons supposed that if it existed at all it was unfavourable to the case of the knights. In 1845, however, owing to the exertions of Mr. Philip Hayward, the indefatigable agent of the Poor Knights, the indenture was discovered among a mass of mouldy parchments in the riding-house of Carlton Palace. The deed bore date the 4th of August, 1547, and in it reference was made, in the sense already stated, to the two sums of 6001. and 1607. 2s. 4d. Three months afterwards a letter patent of Edward VI., dated October 7, 1547, put the dean and canons in possession of rents producing at that period 6007., in trust, for the uses assigned by King Henry VIII. That two

dotations of the Poor Knights were in existence at that period was clear from the fact stated by Ashmole-that two treasurers, one of the old and the other of the new dotation, the Senescallus veteris and the Senescallus novæ donationis, were appointed. That these funds were misapplied, was equally clear from the fact that for some years after the dean and canons had received these lands in trust there was a Committee of inquiry into the state of the Royal College of the Chapel of St. George. He would refer their Lordships to some extracts from the Register Book of the Council of King Edward VI.

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1551, June 22.—Privy Council held at Greenwich, before King Edward VI. Present thereat -the Protector, the Duke of Somerset, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Lord Treasurer, the Lord Privy Seal, Lord of Shrewsbury, Lord Admiral, Lord Chamberlain, Lord Cobham, Mr. Treasurer, Mr. Comptroller, Mr. Vice Chamber lain, Mr. Secretary Cecil; when it was considered and ordered that a letter of Appearance to the Dean of Windsor (inter alia) to bring with him also a note of so much money of the Poor Knights as he has in his custody.''

That appeared to be something like a trust, anyhow. Then, in 1552, there was the following extract—

"1552, August 7.-Privy Council held at Waltham, before King Edward V1. Present thereat -the Lord Treasurer, the Lord Privy Seal, the Duke of Suffolk, the Lord Chamberlain, Mr. Treasurer, Mr. Secretary Cecil, the Lord Great Chamberlain, and the Vice Chamberlain; when the subject of complaint to the Crown in the letter of the 1st of August, then instant, from Sir Philip Hoby to the Lord Treasurer was taken into the consideration of the Council, and it was thereupon ordered that a letter to the Commissioners (the Earl of Warwick, Sir Philip Hoby, and others) appointed for the inquiry at Windsor, to examine the prebendaries (meaning the dean and canons) there-particularly according to the instructions given them, and to get as much as they can of that hath been embezzled, or the value thereof, and to certify hither of their proceedings in their behalf.'

Here was evidence of the Crown exercising supreme authority by virtue of its Royal prerogative as Sovereign of the Order of the Garter, and that authority was exercised through the Privy Council. It also afforded evidence that the dean and canons were trustees, and were not possessed of the property in fee. From the year 1553 down to 1558, during the reign of Queen Mary, the whole of the rents and profits were paid over to the Lord High Treasurer, the Marquess of Winchester, and such sums were expended in building The Earl of Albemarle

some of the thirteen houses in Windi. Castle, and in fitting up and repair: others for the Poor Knights, and whe houses the thirteen Poor Knights at p sent occupied. It appeared, theref very evident that such property was t by the dean and canons subject to th trust of keeping the houses in repair, a that such outlay was not to be looked up: in the light of a charity. At all events that was the question which he wished make the subject of inquiry before a Se lect Committee. From the accession d Edward VI. to the death of Queen Mary certain conditions of the will of Heary VIII. had been complied with. It was still requisite to make a declaration as to the uses to which the property in question should be applied, and accordingly, by an indenture dated the 30th of August, 1559, the first year of Queen Elizabeth, made bei tween that sovereign and the dean and eanons, it was declared that the property mentioned in the schedule annexed was given and assured unto the dean and canons and their successors "to and for the intens and purpose that the revenues and profits of the same should for ever be employed and bestowed for the maintenance of thir teen Poor Knights within the Castle of Windsor." Those words were so elear that it was quite evident what the inten tions of Queen Elizabeth were. If there was any doubt as to her meaning, she stated in her letters patent of the same date that for the advancement of the noble Order of the Garter, and especially upon the knowledge given her of the late mind and will of her most dear father of noble memory to make a special foundation and continuance of thirteen poor men decayed in the wars and such like service of the realm, to be called Thirteen Knights of Windsor, to be kept there in succession, did, by those letters patent, not only set forth and express the foundation of the thirteen Poor Knights, but declared how and in what manner the revenues of the lands given to the dean and canons by her father Henry VIII., should be bestowed and employed for the maintenance of those thirteen Knights. The property which was thus appropriated for the benefit of these Poor Knights produced, at that period, about 8201. a year; it now yielded no less than 14,750%. The sums stated in the patent as The Queen's Majesty's Ordinance for the continual charges," consisted of twenty-nine items, amounting, in

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