Stamp Duties Bill-House in Committee 1423 THURSDAY, MAY 11. IV. NEW MEMBERS SWORN. Flint County-Hon. Thomas Edward Mostyn Lloyd Mostyn, v. the Hon. Edward MONDAY, MAY 15. Devonport-Sir Thomas Erskine Perry, v. Right Hon. Henry Tufnell, Steward of Lichfield-Lord Waterpark, v. Viscount Anson, now Earl of Lichfield. Hastings-Frederick North, Esq., v. Musgrave Brisco, Esq., Chiltern Hundreds. THURSDAY, May 25. Hertford County-Abel Smith, Esq., v. Thomas Plumer Halsey, Esq., deceased. HANSARD'S THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND, APPOINTED TO MEET 20 AUGUST, 1852, AND FROM THENCE HER MAJESTY QUEEN VICTORIA. FOURTH VOLUME OF THE SESSION. sure of the Lord Advocate had of course received the sanction of Government, and (Ireland); Exchequer Bills (£16,024,100.) Reported.-Church Building Acts Continuance. LOF and he was aware of the opposition to it ORD BROUGHAM presented a peti- very important subject. Although the Bill to which it had reference-the Scotch Edu- cation Bill-was not before their Lordships, but was still before the other House of Par- liament, he was most strictly within the rule in presenting it, because it had no prayer except generally for a safe and beneficial measure upon that subject. The petitioners referred to the Government plan for improving the system of education in Scotland, and strongly recommended and the weight of whose opinion could not approved of that plan in its main particu- be denied, not only on account of the lars; though they objected particularly to high station he for many years occupied the provision respecting religious instruc- as head of the other House of Parliament, tion, and prayed their Lordships to adopt but also from his inestimable personal a system of education which should be uni- qualities-joined with the others in the form, unsectarian, and popular. The mea-apprehension that this measure, if carried B into effect, might interfere with the old-after considering it with various bodies of established system of parochial schools in those Dissenters themselves, and when he Scotland. He (Lord Brougham) could not thought he had come to a full understandpretend to the same information on the ing with them, and that the measure might subject that was possessed by his noble be carried, he was compelled to withdraw it and learned Friend or to the information out of deference to their objections, and possessed by his noble Friend opposite (the from his sincere respect for them as fellowEarl of Aberdeen), who belonged to that labourers of many years in the cause of country; but he was inclined to think, so education, though he considered they were far as he had an opportunity of forming actuated by the most groundless jealousy. an opinion upon the plan about to be in- Years elapsed, and he again brought fortroduced, that it would not interfere with ward a measure on the subject, and then the parochial schools in Scotland, and that he had to meet, not the prejudices of the the parochial system, which, beyond all Dissenters, but the prejudices of a most doubt, was of the utmost possible benefit, rev. Friend (the Archbishop of Canterand had produced incalculable advantages bury). On that occasion, which was in the to the people of Scotland, was more ser- year 1839, Lord Melbourne's Government viceable to the country districts than to supported his Bill; but a right rev. Prelate, the towns, and that, if increased means who had a few days before voted with him of education were given to the towns, the and with the Government against the Archresult would be beneficial. He could not bishop, was the first to move that it should help adverting to what he had so often oc- be read a second time that day three casion to lament, that the cause of educa- months; and he defeated the Government tion should have suffered so much, and as well as himself (Lord Brougham) on should still suffer so much, from the con- that Bill. Then he found it was utterly flicting feelings-he would venture to say, and absolutely impossible to carry any rather than conflicting interests-as well educational measure without a comproin England and Ireland as in Scotland, of mise, and he addressed a letter to his the different sects which unhappily divide most dear and inestimable Friend, unhapthe people of all the three countries. How pily now no more, the late Duke of Bedoften had he failed, both in the other House ford, in concert with whom he had brought of Parliament and in their Lordships' forward that Bill, and who plainly admitted House, in the measures which he had pro- after the result that without a compromise pounded, which had received the greatest it was utterly impossible they could succeed possible consideration, which had appeared in carrying any plan of education, and that to unite in their favour all interests, whe- the plan should be such as might, if possither secular or spiritual, and which, never- ble, unite in its support the Church and theless, were found impossible to be car- the Dissenters. He hoped and trusted they ried in Parliament, and to become law; were now on the eve of obtaining some because, on the one hand, the Established such measure; and, thinking that the Bill Church, though deeply interested in the now before the other House, so far as Scotduty of instructing the people, and strongly land was concerned, was founded upon some disposed, nay, actually contributing to en- such salutary compromise, he should encourage plans for improving popular edu- deavour to recommend the adoption of it, cation, seemed to regard one thing more when it found its way into that House. than even teaching the people, and that There was one point in the petition which was the power of successfully conflicting gave him great satisfaction, and that was, with the Dissenters; and, on the other that the petitioners stated that they rejoiced. hand, though the Dissenters had been in the proposal to establish reformatory and among the most zealous advocates of edu- industrial schools, a most wise and salucation during the last fifty years, and had tary provision. It would be a most blessed made great sacrifices for the encourage- measure if that Bill should be carried with ment of popular instruction, there was one such a provision, and such provision exthing they valued a little more than po- tended also to this country and to Ireland; pular education, and that was a victory and from what had passed elsewhere, he over the Established Church. Thus, be- had reason to hope that an hon. Friend of tween the two contending parties, educa- his (Mr. Adderley), having propounded a tion oftentimes fell to the ground. After Bill of that kind and with that view, would the most mature consideration of his first permit it to be superseded, provided a submeasure, that of 1820, in all its details, stitute for it were given, a measure of the Lord Brougham same sort to be introduced by his noble this subject; but he could, by quotations Friend the Secretary of State for the from Grotius down to the present time, Home Department. He should take an show their Lordships that every jurist opportunity of referring to this matter on had either assumed the doctrine, or had a future occasion; it seemed to him to be expressly laid it down for law. He an object of the greatest possible impor- should content himself with referring their tance, and he could bear his testimony to Lordships to an authority which they would the admirable working of an institution of all reverence-he meant Edmund Burkethe kind to which he had referred, which an Englishman, or he was perhaps wrong in he had lately inspected while on a tour in saying Englishman, because he was one of France, and which was worthy of the the glories of Ireland. Mr. Burke, in his highest commendation. He referred to celebrated letter to the Duke of Portland, the great institution at Mettray founded published in 1793, used this language:by Viscount Corbillieux and M. Demetz, upon the plan first adopted at Stretton upon Dunsmure in Warwickshire, which unhappily, after many years of successful action and rendering incalculable benefits to society, has within the last two months been given up for want of funds. Petition ordered to lie on the table. UNAUTHORISED NEGOTIATIONS BILL. Order of the Day for the Second Reading read. LORD CAMPBELL, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said, that he was well aware of the responsibility he incurred by laying this Bill on the table of their Lordships' House, inasmuch as it sought to extend the penal law of the country. He hoped that the Bill would operate only by way of prevention, and that, after it had passed into law, what it sought to remedy would have ceased to exist. At the same time he proposed to establish a new misdemeanor, which, although liable only to a mild punishment, could not be proposed without casting upon the person who proposed it the burden of proving that it would not interfere with any natural or constitutional right, and that some evil had been experienced, or might be apprehended, which rendered legislation necessary. He believed that he should be able to show to their Lordships that the Bill now before them did not interfere with any natural or constitutional right, and that it was called for by evils which had been experienced, and by greater evils which might be apprehended. There could, he presumed, be no doubt that the law of nations was correctly laid down in the preamble of the Bill; there could be no doubt that, by the law of nations, intercourse between States could only be legitimately carried on by the Governments of those States, or by Ministers or officials duly authorised to carry on negotiations. It would be pedantry in him to quote authorities upon The laws and constitution of the kingdom intrust the sole and exclusive right of communicating with foreign potentates to the King. This is an undisputed part of the legal perogative of the Crown." Then Mr. Burke designated an unauthorised interference with a foreign Government most unconstitutional act,” and added— a "The legitimate and sure mode of communication between this nation and foreign Powers is rendered uncertain, precarious, and treacherous, by being divided into two channels, by which means the foreign Powers can never be assured of the real authority or validity of any public transaction whatsoever." IIe then pointed out that such unauthorised communications "make a highway in England for the intrigues of foreign Courts in our affairs;" and concluded with these emphatic words "This is a sore evil, an evil from which, before this time, England was more free than any other nation. Nothing can preserve us from that evil, which connects Cabinet factions abroad with po pular factions here, but the keeping sacred the Crown as the only channel of communication with every other nation." Now, the facts upon which Mr. Burke based these observations were, he believed, not actually existing; but the authority of that statesman's name upon the abstract question of law was equally great, this being the doctrine he laid down upon the supposition that the state of things which he apprehended really did exist. There could be no doubt that even with those who had no evil intention-even with the loyal, the patriotic, and the intelligent-evil might arise from unauthorised communications with foreign Powers. They might thwart unconsciously the measures of their own Government; they might lay themselves open to mistification and cajolery on the part of those with whom they interfered; and they might be made the tools of foreign Powers in spreading in this country doctrines and opinions that were unfavourable to the |