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Brocklehurst, J.
Brockman, E. D.
Brotherton, J.
Brown, H.
Bruce, H. A.
Buckley, Gen.
Butler, C. S.
Byng, hon. G. H. C.

Cardwell, rt. hon. E.
Castlerosse, Viset.
Cavendish, hon. C. C.
Cavendish, hon. G.
Challis, Mr. Ald.

ment of a controversy which, if not for | Brand, hon. H.
ever terminated, would not at a period like
the present have been raised by this side
of the House. You have come forward
and demanded this great amount of
2,500,000l., and not a Minister of the
Crown, but upon extreme compulsion, has
expressed a word in favour of the pro-
position. What was the motive of your
silence? Did you shrink from discussion?
Did you think a debate on ways and means
impolitic? Did you think it would give
a bad impression if the House of Com-
mons had discussions and divisions on
taxation? If such were your feelings,
do you not think that the credit of
the Government and the resources of the
country were much more injured by the
way in which the Treasury lately at-
Is it not more
tempted to raise a loan?
calculated to injure the credit of the coun-
try-is it not more calculated to damage
you in the eyes of foreign countries-that
the Minister of Finance could not go into
the City and obtain 2,000,000l. at 4 per
cent, than that the Parliament of England
should frankly deliberate on the taxes
about to be imposed on the people? In
my opinion it is better that our foes should
see that sums so vast as these greater
than those furnished by the largest pro-
vinces of our Imperial foe-should be
frankly discussed; in my opinion it is
better, rather than see sums given in the
churlish, undignified, and unmanly manner
in which the Government attempts to filch
this measure, that our foes should see that
we exercise our functions as representa-
tives of the people, and that, while pre-
pared to support even a Government to
which we are opposed, we will to the
utmost do our duty to our constituencies
in seeing that the ways and means are
adjusted according to the principles of
eternal justice.

Question put.

Chambers, M.
Chambers, T.
Cheetham, J.
Christy, S.
Clay, Sir W.
Clinton, Lord R.
Cockburn, Sir A. J. E.
Cogan, W. H. F.
Collier, R. P.
Cowan, C.
Cowper, hon. W. F.
Craufurd, E. H. J.
Crossley, F.
Currie, R.
Dalrymple, Viset.
Davie, Sir II. R. F.
Dashwood, Sir G. H.
Denison, E.
Denison, J. E.
Dent, J. D.
Divett, E.
Drummond, H.
Drumlanrig, Visct.
Duff, G. S.
Duff, J.
Duke, Sir J.
Duncan, G.
Dunlop, A. M.
Egerton, W. T.
Egerton, E. C.
Elcho, Lord
Ellice, rt. hon. E.
Ellice, E.
Elliot, hon. J. E.
Emlyn, Viset.
Esmonde, J.
Euston, Earl of
Ewart, W.
Fagan, W.
Feilden, M. J.

Fergus, J.
Ferguson, Col.

The House divided:-Ayes 303; Noes Ferguson, J.

195 Majority 108.

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FitzGerald, Sir J.
Fitzgerald, J. D.
Fitzgerald, W. R. S.
Fitzroy, hon. H
Fitzwilliam, hn. C.W.W.
Fitzwilliam, hon. G. W.
Foley, J. H. H.
Forster, C.
Forster, J.

Goderich, Visct.
Goodman, Sir G.

Goold, W.

Goulburn, rt. hon. H.
Gower, hon. F. L.
Grace, O. D. J.

Graham, rt. hon. Sir J.

Greenall, G.
Greene, T.
Gregson, S.
Grenfell, C. W.
Greville, Col. F.
Grey, rt. hon. Sir G.
Grey, R. W.
Grosvenor, Lord R.
Grosvenor, Earl
Hadfield, G.
Hall, Sir B.
Hankey, T.
Hanmer, Sir J.
Harcourt, G. G.
Hardinge, hon. C. S.
Hastie, Alex.
Hastie, Arch.
Heard, J. I.
Heathcote, J.
Heathcote, Sir W.
Henchy, D. O.
Heneage, G. H. W.

Heneage, G. F.
Herbert, H. A.
Herbert, rt. hon. S.
Hervey, Lord A.
Heywood, J.

Heyworth, L.
Higgins, G. G. O.
Hindley, C.
Hogg, Sir J. W.
Horsfall, T. B.

Horsman, E.

Howard, hon. C. W. G.

Howard, Lord E.

Hughes, W. B.

Hume, J.

Hutchins, E. J.
Hutt, W.
Ingham, R.

Jackson, W.

Jermyn, Earl

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Locke, J.

Fox, W. J.

Freestun, Col.
Gardner, R.
Geach, C.

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Glyn, G. C.

M'Cann, J.

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Smith, M. T.

Montgomery, Sir G.
Morris, D.

Mostyn, hn. T. E. M. L.
Mowbray, J. R.
Mulgrave, Earl of
Mure, Col.

Murrough, J. P.
Norreys, Lord

Norreys, Sir D. J.
North, F.

O'Brien, Sir T.

O'Brien, C.

O'Connell, D.

O'Flaherty, A.
Osborne, R.
Otway, A. J.
Owen, Sir J.

Paget, Lord A.
Paget, Lord G.
Palmer, Roun.
Palmerston, Visct.
Patten, J. W.
Pechell, Sir G. B.
Peel, Sir R.

Peel, F.

Peel, Col.

Pellatt, A.
Perry, Sir T. E.
Philipps, J. H.

Sawle, C. B. G. Scholefield, W. Scobell, Capt. Scrope, G. P. Scully, F.

Smith, rt. hon. R. V.
Smollett, A.
Stafford, Marq. of
Stanley, hon. W. O.
Starkie, L. G. N.
Stirling, W.
Strutt, rt. hon. E.
Stuart, Lord D.
Sutton, J. H. M.
Talbot, C. R. M.
Tancred, H. W,
Thicknesse, R. A.
Thompson, G.
Thornely, T.

Thornhill, W. P.
Townshend, Capt.
Tynte, Col. C. J. K.
Uxbridge, Earl of
Vane, Lord H,
Vernon, G. E. H.
Vivian, J. H.
Vivian, II. H.
Walmsley, Sir J.
Walter, J.
Warner, E.
Waterpark, Lord
Watkins, Col. L.

Wells, W.

Whatman, J.
Whitbread, S.

Wilkinson, W. A.

Phillimore, J. G.

Phillimore, R. J.

Phinn, T.

Pigott, F.

Wilcox, B. M.

Pilkington, J.

Williams, M.

Pinney, W.

Williams, W.

Wilson, J.

Ponsonby, hon. A. G. J.

Portman, hon. W. H. B.

Price, Sir R.

Price, W. P.

Pritchard, J.

Ramsden, Sir J. W.

Ricardo, J. L.

Ricardo, O.
Rice, E. R.
Rich, H.

Richardson, J. J.
Robartes, T. J. A.

Adderley, C. B. Alexander, J.

Winnington, Sir T. E. Wise, A.

Wood, rt. hon. Sir C.

Wortley, rt. hon. J. S.
Wrightson, W. B.
Wyndham, W.
Wyvill, M.

Young, rt. hon. Sir J.

TELLERS.

Hayter, rt. hon. W. G. Berkeley, G. C.

List of the NOES.

Annesley, Earl of

Archdall, Capt. M.
Bagge, W.
Bailey, Sir J.

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Beach, Sir M. H. H.
Bective, Earl of

Bellew, T. A.
Bennet, P.

Bentinck, Lord H.

Bentinck, G. W. P.
Beresford, rt. hon. W.
Bernard, Visct.
Blair, Col.
Boldero, Col.
Booker, T. W.
Booth, Sir R. G.
Bramston, T. W.
Brooke, Sir A. B.
Bruce, C. L. C.
Buller, Sir J. Y.
Burke, Sir T. J.
Burrell, Sir C. M.
Burroughes, H. N.
Butt, G. M.

Campbell, Sir A. I.
Carnac, Sir J. R.
Cecil, Lord R.
Chelsea, Visct.

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Hamilton, G. A.

Hamilton, J. H.

Hanbury, hon. C. S. B.

Harcourt, Col.

Hawkins, W. W.

Hayes, Sir E.

Heathcote, G. II.

Henley, rt. hon. J. W.

Herbert, Sir T.

Hildyard, R. C.
Hill, Lord A.
Hume, W. F.
Irton, S.

Jolliffe, Sir W. G. H.
Jones, D.

Kelly, Sir F.

Kerrison, Sir E. C.
King, J. K.

Knatchbull, W. F.
Knightley, R.
Knox, Col.
Knox, hon. W. S.
Laffan, R M.
Langton, W. G.
Lennox, Lord A. F.
Lennox, Lord H. G.

Leslie, C. P.

Liddell, H. G.

Liddell, hon. H. T.

Lisburne, Earl of

Lockhart, W.

Long, W.

Lovaine, Lord

Lowther, hon. Col.
Lytton, Sir G. E. L. B.
Macartney, G.
Malins, R.

Mandeville, Visct.
Manners, Lord G.
March, Earl of
Maunsell, T. P.
Meux, Sir H.
Miles, W.
Michell, W.
Montgomery, H. L.
Munday, W.

Egerton, Sir P.

Elmley, Visct.

Evelyn, W. J.

Naas, Lord

Farnham, E. B.

Farrer, J.

Neeld, John

Fellowes, E.

Filmer, Sir E.

Floyer, J.

Follett, B. S. Forbes, W.

Forester, rt hon. Col.

Forster, Sir G.
Frewen, C. H.
Fuller, A. E.

Gallwey, Sir W. P.

Galway, Viset.

Gaskell, J. M.

George, J.

Gilpin, Col.

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Napier, rt. hon, J.

Neeld, Jos.

Newark, Visct.
Newdegate, C. N.
Newport, Visct.
Noel, hon. G. J.
North, Col.
Oakes, J. II. P.
Ossulton, Lord
Packe, C. W.

Pakington, rt. hn. Sir J.
Palk, L.

Palmer, Rob.

Parker, R. T.

Percy, hon. J. W.

Pollard-Urquhart, W.

Pugh, D.

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"The operations of the War in which Her Majesty is engaged with the Emperor of Russia, having rendered it necessary to send a large part of Her Majesty's Regular Forces Abroad, Her Majesty deems it proper to provide, without delay, additional means for the Military Service at Home, and, therefore, in pursuance of the Act of Parliament enabling Her Majesty to call out and assemble the Militia of the United Kingdom, Her Majesty has thought it right to make this Communication to the House of Commons, to the end that Her Majesty may cause the said Militia, or such part thereof as Her Majesty shall think necessary, to be forthwith drawn out and embodied, and to be disposed and posted as occasion shall require."

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: I give notice that to-morrow I shall move an Address to Her Majesty in answer to the Message now read.

The House adjourned at One o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

Tuesday, May 16, 1854.

MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILLS.-1a Dangerous Animals.

2a Boundary Survey (Ireland).

3a Benefices Augmentation.

TAXES ON LAW PROCEEDINGS-
RESOLUTION.

LORD BROUGHAM said, that as he had more than once given notice of the subject to which he was about to call their Lordships' attention, he ought to apologise for not bringing it forward sooner; but the truth was, that, after having been engaged the whole morning in judicial duties, he felt three or four times that he would not have sufficient strength to make any statement, however short, on the subject at the period of the evening when alone from other matters named before, he could introduce it. He begged their Lordships not to be alarmed at what he had stated, or to suppose that he was about to make any great demand on their patience. Experiencing the favour of their Lordships so frequently, it became his bounden duty not to encroach upon it further than was absolutely necessary For these reasons he should proceed, without further preface, to state the facts on which he grounded the Resolution he was about to propose. But, first of all, he asked their Lordships to allow him for one he should not be told that these discusmoment to express his earnest hope that sions were at present inopportune, and that they were less interesting than the other matters which had so often occupied their Lordships during the former part of the Session-he meant discussions connected with the state of our foreign relations, and, above all, with the war in which they were unfortunately engaged. Just and necessary as that contest was, unavoidable as it was, he implored of their Lord. ships that they would not add to the mischiefs which war brought in its train by turning a deaf ear to such proposals as might from time to time be made for the improvement of our laws and of our internal condition. They would only make war still more mischievous, and its misery still greater, by adding what, he would venture to say, would be an unnecessary evil to that war. If he did not consider it absolutely necessary to call their Lordships' attention to this subject, he would certainly willingly spare not only himself

the labour, but their Lordships the annoy- | courts, and who stated that they held him, ance, of hearing matters stated, not for the and those who thought with him, responfirst or the second time, but stated, as sible for what they called the evil which they must be, again and again, until the that jurisdiction had created, he (Lord statement should produce a remedy for the Brougham) at once accepted that responevil so justly complained of. And now, sibility. He, and those with whom he first of all, he would call the attention of acted, willingly admitted that they were their Lordships to the state of the county responsible for whatever might be alleged court jurisdiction; because, although he was with respect to the county courts, except about to dwell upon the inequality, the in- the burden cast upon the suitors by the justice, and the absurdity in all respects, taxes. They were the authors of the sysof every tax upon law proceedings, yet he tem. Twenty-four years ago he brought fully admitted that it was the application in a Bill for the establishment of themof those principles to the county courts first in the other House of Parliament, and which chiefly urged him to bring the sub- afterwards in their Lordships' House; and ject before their Lordships. Against he had endeavoured again and again to obthose who, like himself, objected to the tain the assent of Parliament to that most tax upon proceedings in the county courts, important change and improvement in our two very different-indeed wholly opposite judicial system-local-judicature. He was -objections had been urged. By one defeated in the year 1833 on that important class of reasoners they were charged with measure, which contained a complete sysbeing enemies of the county courts; and tem of local judicature, by a majority of by another, who were themselves hostile one or two. His noble and learned Friend to those tribunals, they had thrown upon (Lord Lyndhurst) afterwards took up the them the responsibility of having caused subject in the years 1846 and 1847, and .their erection. As to the first of these brought in a Bill partially enacting the objections that those who wished to provisions of the measure of 1833; and abolish the taxes on law proceedings were most important was that Bill of 1847, for enemies of the county courts-if he had it laid the foundation of the system, and not seen it with his own eyes stated, and created a court, though with limited jurisstated in the Government press, he could diction, yet on a most improved footing. not have believed it possible that any hu- Another Bill was subsequently brought in man being could have paid so little atten- by an hon. Friend of his in the other tion to the subject-matter and history of House of Parliament (Mr. Fitzroy), exthis controversy between himself and his tending the jurisdiction from 20l. to 50l. ; noble Friends opposite, with respect to the and he (Lord Brougham) afterwards obtaxes upon proceedings in the county tained the assent of their Lordships to a courts, as to have dreamt for one moment still further extension taken from the Bill that they who were doing all they possibly of 1833, an extension not in point of amount could to have those taxes repealed, who that might be recovered, but as to the kind complained of the burden thus laid upon of cases over which the courts might have the suitors in the county courts, and jurisdiction; and he had been since conwhose whole object was to relieve the stantly endeavouring still further to extend suitors from that burden and the county the jurisdiction, so as to bring the measure courts from that obstruction, were to be back to what it was in 1833, when it had, considered the enemies of that jurisdiction. unfortunately, been rejected by their LordHe really would not stop to argue the mat- ships. He would not say nine parts in ten ter; it was as the friend of the county of the Bill, but certainly a large portion of courts, and because he objected to the ob- the Bill of 1833 is now the law, and struction of that jurisdiction, and desired working most usefully and in every respect the relief of those courts from the tax on beneficially for the country. He could not their proceedings-it was in that capacity he state his cause of complaint against the then troubled their Lordships, and had for burdens thrown upon the courts, and the the last year and a half been incessant in obstructions raised in other ways by these his efforts to endeavour to obtain a change, taxes, without first telling their Lordships that is the relief of those courts from the the amount of jurisdiction exercised by the burthen imposed on them. Passing now county courts, and the kind of benefits which to the objections proceeding from those they conferred upon the community. The who were really enemies of the county number of suits brought in the county courts Lord Brougham

was, upon

the average of the last six years, 435,641 a year, and the amount involved was 1,400,0007. But during the last three years, since the extension of the jurisdiction from 201. to 50l., though the amount was not anything like what it would have been under the measure of 1833, it having been then proposed to extend the amount recoverable to 100l. by that original Bill, the average amount for which suits were brought for the last three years was 1,520,000l. a year. The number of suits last year was considerably above the average he had stated, and amounted, for 1853, to 484,000. The way to try the uses of the county courts, and to estimate the extraordinary benefits that had been derived from them in the administration of justice, was to ascertain how many suits had been brought in the superior courts before the establishment of these local courts. It appeared that they amounted to 120,000 a year; but since the establishment of the county courts the number had lessened considerably, about one-third, and they now are 81,000 instead of 120,000. He prayed their Lordships to consider how that fact proved-how it absolutely demonstrated that_there was, in certain cases, a complete denial of justice before the year 1847 and the establishment of these local courts. For if 120,000 suits were all that were tried in all the superior courts, and if the number tried in the county courts for the same time according to the average of the last six years, amounted to 435,000, they had only to deduct the 120,000 tried in the superior courts from the 435,000 tried in the county courts, to ascertain what amount of cases had been perfectly capable of being tried before, but were not tried, and consequently in what number of cases there was not a great failure, but a complete denial of justice. There remained 315,000 cases in which, were it not for the county courts, the parties could not have obtained redress. But suppose 15,000 were to be taken off that might have been tried in the old local courts and the small debts courts in the different parts of the country, there would remain 300,000 for the trial of which no provision was made, and which but for the county courts would not be tried, and in all of which there was a complete denial of justice. But it would be a very great mistake to suppose that the number of cases tried, and the sums for which the actions were brought, could give anything like an accurate notion

of the benefits derived from those courts. They must also take into account the number of cases that were settled without the suits being brought, the knowledge of those courts being in existence, and that suits might be brought in them, causing the parties to settle the debts without putting their adversaries to the necessity of a suit at all. It was quite impossible to form an estimate of the amount involved in those cases, but that it was very considerable there could be no doubt. There were other indirect advantages obtained by the establishment of county courts which, though not equal to the benefits directly conferred by them, were still of great importance and he would mention one. Great improvements of the law had been facilitated by them; and his noble and learned Friend on the woolsack would bear him out in the assertion he was about to make that he did not think he should have had the least chance of passing that important measure to which he had had the good fortune of obtaining the assent of their Lordships and the other branch of the Legislature two or three years ago, the new Evidence Act, admitting parties in the cause as witnesses, had it not been for the establishment of the county courts. He had no idea that he should ever have been able to carry it but for the experiment which had been made in those courts, where the success of the system demonstrated that it ought to be made general. Having stated the facts respecting the new system of social judicature, he thought he might now venture to enunciate three propositions founded upon those facts of manifest truth. In the first place, that it was too late to think of retracing their steps; next, that they must improve and extend the system; thirdly, that it must be relieved from all undue pressure of taxes. It is plain that they could not dream of restoring the central, or of abolishing the local jurisdiction. The system was rooted so deeply in the affections of the community, and so intimately connected with their most important interests, that all notion of a retrograde movement was out of the question, and henceforth and for ever it was to be considered as part of our jurisprudence. For that very reason, secondly, it became them

it behoved them-to lend all manner of attention to its improvement, and to introduce all such extensions of it as might

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