Brocklehurst, J.
Brockman, E. D.
Brotherton, J.
Brown, H.
Bruce, H. A.
Buckley, Gen.
Butler, C. S.
Cardwell, rt. hon. E.
Castlerosse, Visct.
Cavendish, hon. C. C.
Cavendish, hon, G.
Challis, Mr. Ald.

Byng, hon. G. H. C.

ment of a controversy which, if not for | Brand, hon. H. ever terminated, would not at a period like the present have been raised by this side of the House. You have come forward and demanded this great amount of 2,500,000l., and not a Minister of the Crown, but upon extreme compulsion, has expressed a word in favour of the proposition. What was the motive of your silence? Did you shrink from discussion? Did you think a debate on ways and means impolitic? Did you think it would give a bad impression if the House of Commons had discussions and divisions on taxation? If such were your feelings, do you not think that the credit of the Government and the resources of the country were much more injured by the way in which the Treasury lately attempted to raise a loan? Is it not more calculated to injure the credit of the country-is it not more calculated to damage you in the eyes of foreign countries-that the Minister of Finance could not go into the City and obtain 2,000,000l. at 4 per cent, than that the Parliament of England should frankly deliberate on the taxes about to be imposed on the people? my opinion it is better that our foes should see that sums so vast as these greater than those furnished by the largest provinces of our Imperial foe-should be frankly discussed; in my opinion it is better, rather than see sums given in the churlish, undignified, and unmanly manner in which the Government attempts to filch this measure, that our foes should see that we exercise our functions as representatives of the people, and that, while prepared to support even a Government to which we are opposed, we will to the utmost do our duty to our constituencies in seeing that the ways and means adjusted according to the principles of Feilden, M. J.

In

are

Chambers, M.
Chambers, T.
Cheetham, J.
Christy, S.
Clay, Sir W.
Cockburn, Sir A. J. E.
Clinton, Lord R.
Cogan, W. H. F.
Collier, R. P.
Cowan, C.
Craufurd, E. H. J.
Cowper, hon. W. F.
Crossley, F.
Currie, R.
Dalrymple, Visct.
Davie, Sir II. R. F.
Dashwood, Sir G. H.
Denison, E.
Denison, J. E.
Dent, J. D.
Divett, E.
Drummond, H.
Drumlanrig, Viset.
Duff, G. S.
Duff, J.
Duke, Sir J.
Duncan, G.
Egerton, W. T.
Dunlop, A. M.
Egerton, E. C.
Elcho, Lord
Ellice, rt. hon. E.
Elliot, hon. J. E.
Ellice, E.
Emlyn, Viset.
Esmonde, J.
Euston, Earl of
Ewart, W.
Fagan, W.

Fergus, J.

Ferguson, Col.

The House divided :-Ayes 303; Noes Ferguson, J.

eternal justice.

Question put.

195: Majority 108.

FitzGerald, Sir J.
Fitzgerald, J. D.
Fitzgerald, W. R. S.
Fitzroy, hon. H

Fitzwilliam, hn. C.W.W.
Fitzwilliam, hon. G. W.
Foley, J. H. H.

Fox, W. J.

Goderich, Visct.
Goodman, Sir G.

Goold, W.

Goulburn, rt. hon. II.
Gower, hon. F. L.
Grace, O. D. J.

Graham, rt. hon. Sir J.

Greenall, G.
Greene, T.
Gregson, S.
Grenfell, C. W.
Greville, Col. F.
Grey, rt. hon. Sir G.
Grey, R. W.
Grosvenor, Lord R.
Grosvenor, Earl
Hadfield, G.
Hall, Sir B.
Hankey, T.
Hanmer, Sir J.
Harcourt, G. G.

Hardinge, hon. C. S.

Hastie, Alex.

Hastie, Arch.
Heard, J. I.
Heathcote, J.
Heathcote, Sir W.
Henchy, D. O.
Heneage, G. H. W.
Heneage, G. F.
Herbert, H. A.
Herbert, rt. hon. S.
Hervey, Lord A.
Heywood, J.
Heyworth, L.
Higgins, G. G. O.
Hindley, C.
Hogg, Sir J. W.
Horsfall, T. B.

Horsman, E.

Howard, hon. C. W. G.

Howard, Lord E.

Hughes, W. B.

Hume, J.

Hutchins, E. J.
Hutt, W.
Ingham, R.

Forster, C.

Forster, J.

Fortescue, C. S.

Fox, R. M.

Freestun, Col.
Gardner, R.
Geach, C.

Glyn, G. C.

and

the labour, but their Lordships the annoy- | courts, and who stated that they held him, ance, of hearing matters stated, not for the and those who thought with him, respon first or the second time, but stated, as sible for what they called the evil which they must be, again and again, until the that jurisdiction had created, he (Lord statement should produce a remedy for the Brougham) at once accepted that responevil so justly complained of. And now, sibility. He, and those with whom he first of all, he would call the attention of acted, willingly admitted that they were their Lordships to the state of the county responsible for whatever might be alleged court jurisdiction; because, although he was with respect to the county courts, except about to dwell upon the inequality, the in- the burden cast upon the suitors by the justice, and the absurdity in all respects, taxes. They were the authors of the sysof every tax upon law proceedings, yet he tem. Twenty-four years ago he brought fully admitted that it was the application in a Bill for the establishment of them— of those principles to the county courts first in the other House of Parliament, and which chiefly urged him to bring the sub- afterwards in their Lordships' House; ject before their Lordships. Against he had endeavoured again and again to obthose who, like himself, objected to the tain the assent of Parliament to that most tax upon proceedings in the county courts, important change and improvement in our two very different-indeed wholly opposite judicial system-local judicature. He was -objections had been urged. By one defeated in the year 1833 on that important class of reasoners they were charged with measure, which contained a complete sysbeing enemies of the county courts; and tem of local judicature, by a majority of by another, who were themselves hostile one or two. His noble and learned Friend to those tribunals, they had thrown upon (Lord Lyndhurst) afterwards took up the them the responsibility of having caused subject in the years 1846 and 1847, and .their erection. As to the first of these brought in a Bill partially enacting the objections that those who wished to provisions of the measure of 1833; and abolish the taxes on law proceedings were most important was that Bill of 1847, for enemies of the county courts-if he had it laid the foundation of the system, and not seen it with his own eyes stated, and created a court, though with limited jurisstated in the Government press, he could diction, yet on a most improved footing. not have believed it possible that any hu- Another Bill was subsequently brought in man being could have paid so little atten- by an hon. Friend of his in the other tion to the subject-matter and history of House of Parliament (Mr. Fitzroy), exthis controversy between himself and his tending the jurisdiction from 20l. to 50l.; noble Friends opposite, with respect to the and he (Lord Brougham) afterwards obtained the assent of their Lordships to a still further extension taken from the Bill of 1833, an extension not in point of amount that might be recovered, but as to the kind of cases over which the courts might have jurisdiction; and he had been since constantly endeavouring still further to extend the jurisdiction, so as to bring the measure back to what it was in 1833, when it had, unfortunately, been rejected by their Lordships. He would not say nine parts in ten of the Bill, but certainly a large portion of the Bill of 1833 is now the law, and working most usefully and in every respect beneficially for the country. He could not state his cause of complaint against the burdens thrown upon the courts, and the obstructions raised in other ways by these taxes, without first telling their Lordships the amount of jurisdiction exercised by the county courts, and the kind of benefits which they conferred upon the community. The number of suits brought in the county courts

taxes

upon proceedings in the county courts, as to have dreamt for one moment that they who were doing all they possibly could to have those taxes repealed, who complained of the burden thus laid upon the suitors in the county courts, and whose whole object was to relieve the suitors from that burden and the county courts from that obstruction, were to be considered the enemies of that jurisdiction. He really would not stop to argue the matter; it was as the friend of the county courts, and because he objected to the obstruction of that jurisdiction, and desired the relief of those courts from the tax on their proceedings-it was in that capacity he then troubled their Lordships, and had for the last year and a half been incessant in his efforts to endeavour to obtain a change, that is the relief of those courts from the burthen imposed on them. Passing now to the objections proceeding from those who were really enemies of the county

Lord Brougham

was, upon the average of the last six years, of the benefits derived from those courts. 435,641 a year, and the amount involved They must also take into account the was 1,400,000l. But during the last number of cases that were settled without three years, since the extension of the ju- the suits being brought, the knowledge of risdiction from 20l. to 50l., though the those courts being in existence, and that amount was not anything like what it suits might be brought in them, causing would have been under the measure of the parties to settle the debts without put1833, it having been then proposed to ex- ting their adversaries to the necessity of a tend the amount recoverable to 1001. by suit at all. It was quite impossible to that original Bill, the average amount for form an estimate of the amount involved which suits were brought for the last three in those cases, but that it was very conyears was 1,520,000l. a year. The number siderable there could be no doubt. There of suits last year was considerably above the were other indirect advantages obtained average he had stated, and amounted, for by the establishment of county courts 1853, to 484,000. The way to try the which, though not equal to the benefits uses of the county courts, and to estimate directly conferred by them, were still the extraordinary benefits that had been of great importance and he would menderived from them in the administration of tion one. Great improvements of the justice, was to ascertain how many suits had been brought in the superior courts before the establishment of these local courts. It appeared that they amounted to 120,000 a year; but since the establishment of the county courts the number had lessened considerably, about one-third, and they now are 81,000 instead of 120,000. He prayed their Lordships to consider how that fact proved-how it absolutely demonstrated that there was, in certain cases, a complete denial of justice before the year 1847 and the establishment of these local courts. For if 120,000 suits were all that were tried in all the superior courts, and if the number tried in the county courts for the same time according to the average of the last six years, amounted to 435,000, they had only to deduct the 120,000 tried in the superior courts from the 435,000 tried in the county courts, to ascertain what amount of cases had been perfectly capable of being tried before, but were not tried, and consequently in what number of cases there was not a great failure, but a complete denial of justice. There remained 315,000 cases in which, were it not for the county courts, the parties could not have obtained redress. But suppose 15,000 were to be taken off that might have been tried in the old local courts and the small debts courts in the different parts of the country, there would remain 300,000 for the trial of which no provision was made, and which but for the county courts would not be tried, and in all of which there was a complete denial of justice. But it would be a very great mistake to suppose that the number of cases tried, and the sums for which the actions were brought, could give anything like an accurate notion

law had been facilitated by them; and his noble and learned Friend on the woolsack would bear him out in the assertion he was about to make that he did not think he should have had the least chance of passing that important measure to which he had had the good fortune of obtaining the assent of their Lordships and the other branch of the Legislature two or three years ago, the new Evidence Act, admitting parties in the cause as witnesses, had it not been for the establishment of the county courts. He had no idea that he should ever have been able to carry it but for the experiment which had been made in those courts, where the success of the system demonstrated that it ought to be made general. Having stated the facts respecting the new system of social judicature, he thought he might now venture to enunciate three propositions founded upon those facts of manifest truth. In the first place, that it was too late to think of retracing their steps; next, that they must improve and extend the system; thirdly, that it must be relieved from all undue pressure of taxes. It is plain that they could not dream of restoring the central, or of abolishing the local jurisdiction. The system was rooted so deeply in the affections of the community, and so intimately connected with their most important interests, that all notion of a retrograde movement was out of the question, and henceforth and for ever it was to be considered as part of our jurisprudence. For that very reason, secondly, it became them

it behoved them-to lend all manner of attention to its improvement, and to introduce all such extensions of it as might