have to fear from the delay? He had insinuated that the great body of the people were anxious for the completion of the Treaty. If the majority of the people were for the Treaty, surely he had nothing to apprehend from delay. If their approbation of it was well-founded, deliberation would only fix them in their opi of this treaty? If there was to be no sacrifice of the revenue arising from wine, there was to be a sacrifice of the Methuen treaty. If the Methuen treaty was not to be sacrificed, then there was to be a sacrifice of revenue in the article of wines only, to the amount of between 150 and 200,000l. a year. He surely should not, In spite of this immense loss, hesitate anions more thoroughly; but if he susmoment, if the necessity of the alternative was apparent, which side to take; for the Methuen Treaty had justly been considered as the commercial idol of England. There were extravagant rumours out of doors, if they were to listen to all the extravagant rumours circulated concerning the Portugal trade-that it had fallen off, and that it was no longer to be viewed in the same light as formerly. But to these rumours he could give no ear; and the House ought certainly to know the precise state of the trade. They were, on the contrary, called upon to act in the dark. The question, as far as the relation of Portugal to England went, bore three facesThey were, 1. to consider the French Treaty either under the idea that the duties on Portugal wines were to be lowered; or, 2. that the Methuen Treaty was to be sacrificed; or, 3. that there was a negociation pending. In which of these faces was he to consider the Portugal trade while discussing the French Treaty? It surely ought to be clearly and fully explained to the House, before they were called upon to come to this decision. Another circumstance most forcibly demanded consideration. A Convention had been exchanged, and at length ratified-and this convention was so little of a piece with the Treaty, nay, was in some respects so totally dissimilar, that one might have conceived it as possible to decide on the merits of the Irish propositions in their last shape, from having read those which the right hon. gentleman first brought in, as to form a clear and conclusive judgment of the Convention from having read the Treaty. The Convention, which gentlemen had only received that day, contained adjustments of duties, and an arrangement of different articles of hardware, which were all so huddled together in the Treaty, that the most enlightened of the manufacturers and traders would be puzzled to decide at once on its precise merits. A fortnight only was desired. Surely, the right hon. gentleman could not be serious in objecting to a period so short. What could he possibly pected that they were loud in their praise more from the novelty of the object than from their conviction of its merits; that they had, like himself, taken it up hastily, and attracted by the glitter of a French connexion, or tempted by the view of immediate profit, had not taken time to sit down and thoroughly weigh the merits of the case; then, indeed, the conduct of the right hon. gentleman as a temporiser might be right. He snatched at the seasonable moment to catch the transitory breath of their praise; and seized on their delusion to betray them into his toil. But he could not think so poorly of the right hon. gentleman. He surely could not be so content with a triumph so obtained. A triumph of this kind he might have had, in the fullest measure of national delirium, if he had pushed the nation to a question on the Treaty eight days after its publication. There were a sort of people to whom, in every instance, novelty was attraction. If a measure had the merit of being new and glitterring, they were soothed by its appearance, and for a time became subject to its fascination. But this was a sort of magic easily broken. It endured no longer than the novelty itself, and a rational estimate proceeding from cool inquiry followed the momentary intoxication of the senses. Surely the right hon. gentleman could find no true enjoyment in any other than the triumph which should proceed from the concurring voice of the country, seriously and deliberately pronounced in favour of the treaty which he had negociated. He must revolt from a triumph obtained by delusion and error. And while he thus earnestly requested time, he must again recall the memorable circumstance of the Irish propositions. What was the case there? When the right hon. gentleman was intreated to allow time for inquiry, and for collecting the sense of the people, he triumphantly pointed to the table, and inquired what petitions there were on the table. What was the consequence of this? The manufacturing bodies in every part of the country, gave the right hon. gentleman petitions in sufficient number; they gave him the most convincing proof, not only that he was opposed by the whole body of the people, but that he was wrong in every acticle of his scheme. From these gentlemen the House had also gained a complete treatise on manufacture and commerce-a treatise which, though given in the case of the Irish Treaty, was equally applicable to the French Treaty, and would for ever be referred to, and respected in every case of commercial discussion. He should now beg leave to caution the House against entering rashly into the first discussion, because their first opinion delivered on the Treaty was so material. It was not on this as in the Irish Treaty they had no parliament, jealous of the constitution, like themselves, to revise what they might do. He had been said to have delivered very free opinions about French perfidy, and perhaps he might not think that nation the most faithful in their political contracts of any people in Europe; but he never had said that they were so treacherous-that they were so unobservant of their public faith, as to suspect that if the British Parliament were to insert some small passage into the Treaty different from the present letter of it, they would reject the whole. The Irish did this. A clause inserted at the conclusion of the inquiry had the good luck to arouse the jealousy of the parliament of Ireland, and they, much to the satisfaction of every thinking man, rejected the whole scheme; but, in this instance, we had no such good fortune to expect, and therefore Parliament should be more cautious how they suffered a thing to pass, which, once out of their hands, was not likely to meet its doom elsewhere. Such sentiments as he had now expressed, would, he was assured, entirely bear him out in voting for the amendment; and the more particularly, as the consequence of its passing would be a full House, and its natural result, a close investigation of a subject, to which few, if any, were superior in importance. Sir Richard Hill said, that the right hon. gentleman's argument against dispatch reminded him of his conduct respecting a measure of his own, when in office the India Bill of 1784, on which occasion he would not give the House time to have a call take place, before he forced them to decide upon its principle. When that Bill was thrown out by the $ House of Lords, the people joined in praises and thanksgivings at their deliverance from a bill which aimed at setting up an unconstitutional power, and wantonly destroyed the chartered rights of the East India Company. Mr. Pitt said, that the right hon. gentleman was always entitled to very serious attention; but on the present occasion, when he was endeavouring to postpone the discussion of the most important question that could possibly come under the consideration of the House, and which in its very nature required every degree of dispatch that could be given to it with safety, it was more than ever incumbent on him to use the most consummate care to comprehend the drift and tendency of his arguments. It was besides a matter of curious observation to mark the motives which could induce the right hon. gentleman, whose general characteristic had not hitherto appeared to be procrastination, to wish to impede the discussion of such a subject as the present. Could the smallest affinity be made out between the Commercial Treaty with France, and the right hon. gentleman's India Bill, he should shudder at the thought of bringing the consideration of the treaty forward at all, and would readily acquiesce in every project of delay which, the right hon. gentleman should make. On a question so much at variance with the principles by which the right hon. gentleman's own practice had been governed, it was naturally to be expected that he would have exerted all his ingenuity, to avoid the appearance of that inconsistency with which, in his political measures, as well as in his political connexions, the public opinion had long since charged him. But the right hon. gentleman's arguments, however pointed they might be, were by no means methodical and regular. He should therefore endeavour to arrange them in some sort of order, and give them severally and distinctly such answers as he was able. The first argument used by the right hon. gentleman, in favour of a call of the House, was, that such a measure was obviously right and proper, when a subject of such consequence as that now under consideration was to be discussed. To this he should answer, that certainly a full attendance was extremely desirable on such an occasion;-but surely no man would pretend to say, that a call of the House at the present day would give any better promise of a full attendance than what might be collected from the appear- | ance of the House at that moment, or even if the House were not full, might naturally have been expected from the magnitude of the subject itself; these circumstances would in themselves be sufficient to insure a crowded House, as was evident from the numbers then actually present; whereas it was on occasions where any business of magnitude unexpectedly came forward, or where the importance of such business was not of a nature likely to impress itself on the minds of people, that a call was generally resorted to.-The next argument used for a call, was, that the present subject being evidently entitled to a full attendance, there had not been sufficient notice given of the time proposed for the discussion. In answer to this, he observed, that the treaty with France had been made public above four months previous to the meeting of Parliament. Then, as to the want of proper notice having been given of the intention of bringing it on at this period, he should state a few circumstances, to shew that no consideration whatsoever was due to the argument. In the first place, the treaty was in itself of such a nature as necessarily demanded a speedy conclusion. In the next place, it was the subject which his Majesty in his speech had recommended most pointedly to the attention of Parliament. Mr. Pitt now recapitulated all that had passed concerning the treaty since the meeting of Parliament, pointing out that it had been his constant practice whenever it was mentioned, to speak of it as a thing necessary to be taken up immediately. On the whole, whether such a measure were necessary or not, it was certain that the conduct of those who attempted to bring it about was not such as to give any weight to the proposal; but, for his part, he should be perfectly indifferent about it, were it not for the delay which it must necessarily occasion, and his conviction that a call of the House would not prove a means of bringing a single member more to it than already attended. The call had also been enforced under the idea of giving gentlemen an opportunity of consult ing their constituents on the subject of the treaty, before they should come to any decisive vote upon it. As to this, he hoped that no gentleman had come up to Parliament without having performed that very necessary part of their duty,-the making themselves, acquainted with the [VOL. XXVI.] sentiments of their constituents on a subject in which their interests were so materially concerned. And he called upon gentlemen who represented those parts of the kingdom which flourished most in manufactures and commerce, to declare what were the opinions of their constituents on the subject, and what was the state of expectation and general interest which had been excited in those parts by the prospect of the completion of the French treaty. He would even, on this occasion, appeal to an hon. gentleman, to whom he should not in general wish to refer a question in which he felt himself deeply involved. He would appeal to the member for Norwich (Mr. Windham) whether he had the authority of his conşti tuents to delay or restrain the execution of the treaty. The right hon. gentleman had made another effort in support of delay. The convention entered into with France, subsequent to the conclusion of the treaty, had given him a ground for this part of his conduct. The convention having been concluded, for the purpose of arranging the detail of the general principles established by the treaty, the right hon. gentleman had argued that time ought to be given to gentlemen to examine the several articles of that detail before they were called upon to form a conclusion as to the principle. He would take upon himself to say, that no gentleman who had read the convention would. venture to assert, that there was a single article contained in it, which could or ought to have any effect on the judgment of the House with respect to the principle of the treaty.-The third argument of the right hon. gentleman had a reference to the pending treaty with Portugal; and the right hon. gentleman had contended, that if they were to be in a state of ignorance as to the event of the treaty, it would be highly improper to proceed to a confirmation of the French treaty; whereas if we were to have an account of the fate of that negociation, then they would so far be enabled to go to the consideration of the treaty. If there was any strength in this argument, he was willing, he said, to allow the right hon. gentleman the benefit of it in its fullest extent; and he would freely acknowledge, not only that the treaty with Portugal was not yet concluded, but that there was no prospect of its being concluded previous to the day proposed for the discussion of the treaty. Therefore, if the argument could at all [2 A] tend to support the requisition for delay | consummate deliberation. He remem. made by the gentlemen opposite, they bered the right hon. gentleman to have had the full benefit of it. At the same introduced on the third day of the session, time, the concession, he believed, would a measure which, from its novelty, its turn out to be of no great use to them, magnitude, its obvious effects, and the when it should be found how the argu- terror and alarm with which it filled every ment would apply. The right hon. gen- thinking mind in the kingdom, seemed tleman had stated, that, in point of revenue, eminently entitled to a most deliberate we were likely to become losers by the discussion, and a most minute investiga reduction of the duties on the Portuguese tion-a measure which, as if conscious of wines, which, if the provisions of the its own malignity, had crept under darkMethuen treaty were to be maintained, ness, and shrunk even from a whisper, must, after the execution of the French and until that day, had never been heard treaty, be reduced by one third of their of in public: and yet, to this measure the present amount, and had asked, whether right hon. gentleman, in the plenitude of the increased importation of French wines his power and the ardour of his mind, rewould be likely to compensate for that fused to allow that delay, which, even on defalcation? To this he would answer, the most ordinary occasions, the forms of e that whether in the article of wines or not, the House had rendered necessary !—a he was prepared to contend, when the measure which violated every principle of treaty with France came fairly under dis- the constitution, overturning the estacussion, that even supposing the duties on blished maxims of government, unhinging Portugal wines to be lowered, agreeably the functions of the executive authority, to the stipulations contained in our pre- setting up a new and most destructive a: sent treaties with Portugal, that even then, power in the state, and trampling, withwhatever falling off the revenue might out any concern or reflection, on the prisustain in that article, still it would be vate property of individuals!-a measure, most amply counterbalanced by the in short, which had stigmatized its abetvarious channels of commerce which this tors with universal odium, and would hand treaty would necessarily then create or them down to posterity as objects of everimprove. lasting reproach! Such was the measure, which, without examination, without even a pause or scarcely a day's consideration, had been crammed down the throats of that House by the right hon. gentleman. At that time he endeavoured by argu ment, by persuasion, by entreaty, and deprecation, to restrain the right hon. gentleman from the ungovernable rashness by which he seemed actuated; but it had no effect. Here Mr. Pitt stated the different periods of the several stages of Mr. Fox's East India Bill in its progress through the House, and his own attempts to repress the rapidity with which it was pressed forward. Shortly after he had changed his seat in that House, yet he had brought with him his principles: but the right hon. gentleman had appeared to have most strangely altered his principles, and was ready, in his present situation, to give, even where the spirit of it could not apply, that advice which, in all cases of the most obvious necessity, he had himself haughtily and superciliously rejected. For his own part, neither had the right hon. gentleman's arguments been able to convince him, his rebukes to intimidate, or his admonitions to alarm him, but he should, with the consent of The right hon. gentleman had reflected on him for his rashness in pushing forward his measures without due deliberation, and had admonished him (no doubt with great sincerity) to avoid bringing this matter to so speedy a determination for fear of consequences, which, though he had sufficient vigour of imagination to foresee, he yet had not discrimination or accuracy_enough to enumerate and describe. But what did the right hon. gentleman mean to consider as precipitation and rashness? Did he hold it to be precipitate and rash to proceed, after more than four months public notoriety, to debate and determine on a measure, by which the attention of the whole nation was engaged, and in which the wishes and interests of those concerned were most materially involved? He remembered the time when the right hon. gentleman did not judge in the same way in which it would now appear he did. When he had the misfortune of sitting in the seat now occupied by the right hon. gentleman, he had an opportunity of making his observations on his disposition, and the principles by which he was governed en questions which required the most the House, go into the consideration of the treaty on the ensuing Monday. Mr. Martin declared, that so far from being of opinion that a call of the House was necessary, he should have very little confidence in those members who would not attend their duty, when a measure of so much importance was to come under consideration, without the enforcement of a call. With respect to the Treaty, he was ready to debate it on Monday; and was free to acknowledge, that he saw no manner of objection to breaking through ancient prejudices, and entering into a commercial connexion with a liberal, civilized, and powerful neighbouring nation, with a view to promote a lasting harmony between the two countries, and render war less probable. all others failed him; he begged leave to contradict the assertion of the principle of it being debated a week previous to the call of the House. The fact was, that the right hon. gentleman himself had chosen to debate the principle of the question on the motion for the Speaker's leaving the chair; but that did not preclude the principle of the Bill from being afterwards debated; consequently the arguments on that subject were nugatory. Mr. Burke observed, that the treaty with France was not to be regarded as a simple commercial treaty; it had relation to other and higher considerations; it bore strongly upon the political interests of the country, and must necessarily af fect them deeply. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, with that narrowness which led men of limited minds to look at great objects in a confined point of view, regarded the treaty, and wished it to be regarded as a mere commercial consideration. Such men, when in power, converted large cities into small villages, while those of a more noble and liberal way of thinking acted on a greater scale, and changed small villages into great cities. The right hon. gentleman had talked of the treaty as the affair of two little counting-houses, and not of two great countries. He seemed to consider it as a contention between the sign of the Fleur-de-Lis and the sign of the Red Lion, which house should obtain the best custom. Such paltry considerations were below his notice; but it was a serious thing to hear that Portugal was not to be held in view, in the discussion of the treaty. That was a novel and an alarming circumstance, and ought to be generally understood by the people, before their representatives gave a decisive vote on the treaty. The right hon. gentleman Mr. For said, that he had heard a rumour had ridiculed the idea of consulting their from a very respectable quarter, that Mr. constituents. He begged to ask, had the Fawkener had left Lisbon with a final and manufacturers, of whose acquiescence the complete refusal on the part of the Por-right hon. gentleman seemed so sure, been tuguese to enter into a new treaty; that told, that the trade to Portugal was to be Mr. Fawkener had received this answer a the price of the trade to France? Where fortnight before he left Lisbon, and that were they apprized of this? In what hall ministers were in possession of it at least a was the meeting held? As far as a mere month ago. He therefore thought it in-commercial view of the treaty with France cumbent on the Chancellor of the Exchequer to state the situation of that treaty, if any was pending, fairly and candidly to the House. As to the Bill which he had the honour to bring in relative to the affairs of India, and which was always the resource of the right hon. gentleman when Mr. Wilbraham observed, that when Mr. Pitt declared that the Methuen Treaty was done away by the French Treaty, he had enforced an argument, of all others the most unanswerable, in favour of the amendment. Mr. Wilbraham | asked, if the Portuguese would not have a right to put an immediate stop to the importation of our woollen manufactures as soon as the French Treaty received the sanction of Parliament? He lamented it, as a fatal blow to our commerce. He observed, that our manufacturers felt joy and triumph, when they heard that their manufactures would have a vent in France; but surely that joy and triumph would be converted into lamentation and sorrow, when they heard that the exportation of their goods to Portugal was stopped. He stated the great advantages of that trade in various points of view, and particularly in respect to the nursery for our seamen that it afforded, a great number of our vessels being employed in it, and above 5,000 seamen, went, perhaps his opinion was much the same with that of the manufacturers, as to its immediate effect; but he should never think of consulting them as to the policy of the measure, and its probable political effect on our ancient connexion. We were about to truckle, and to join our |