DISCUSSION.

The Hon. F. A. R. RUSSELL said:-In the first place I wish to express the pleasure with which I have heard the paper which has just been read. It deals with a subject on which hitherto very little light has fallen from authentic sources, and certainly no such maritime records as have been quoted were within my knowledge when I wrote my book On Hail. Now it appears that mariners have for more than 40 years been registering systematic observations for the Meteorological Office, and that several thousands of logs, some of which make mention of a phenomenon such as hail, are stored in Victoria Street. These logs must contain many treasures, and one can only rejoice when, as we have seen to-night, these "gems of purest ray serene" are brought to the surface and set in the sunshine of our Society.

Before proceeding to discuss Mr. Harries' paper, it may be well to distinguish -for perhaps I have not sufficiently done so in my book-between large and small hail. It was the large or summer hail with which I dealt; disregarding the small hail, graupel, or sleet, of cool climates or seasons. Mr. Scott, in his Elementary Meteorology, says, "Soft hail falls chiefly in winter and spring. True hail is a very different thing. It is usually composed of concentric layers of hard and soft ice," &c. . . "In these islands, fortunately, we know but little of destructive hailstorms. On the Continent we are almost everywhere met by the frequent advertisements of Hail Insurance Offices, which are comparatively rare here. This immunity of ours is due to our insular climate, and its consequent freedom from extremes of temperature."

Only two instances, Mr. Harries states, are given in my book of a hailstorm on the water, and he then infers that since the extracts cover a period of more than two centuries, it is not surprising that I should have decided that "in midocean it is almost unknown." Yet I know well that many great hailstorms might occur at sea, while an accurate description of one of them might still be wanting. Further, when referring to my "Summary of Characteristics of Hailstorms and Hailstones," he quotes me as having written "in mid-ocean it [hail] is almost unknown." The actual words are different: "In mid-ocean it is uncommon," the previous sentence being, "In the Arctic regions hail is almost unknown," so that a distinction is clearly drawn between "almost unknown and "uncommon." Then he speaks of the upshot of theories and conjectures discussed in the book resolving itself into a law which declares (p. 202) that "the equability of the ocean temperature and the usual absence of comparatively very cold masses of air at a high level will rarely allow the development of great hailstorms over the open sea." I have said nothing of law. This is an opinion, and I am inclined to defend it.

To show that the subject which I treated of was large hail, I would ask the Fellows to observe that in a large number of cases of hailstorms described the measurements of hailstones are given. In going through these accounts, I find that in 53 out of a total of 61 hailstorms noted in the first chapter, there is clear testimony to the hail being of very large size, such as nuts, walnuts, eggs, apples, oranges, and up to 12 inches in circumference. On the other hand, the great majority of the data extracted from logs in this paper seem to be reports of small hail. When one observer gives 116 records of hail while running about two-thirds round the southern hemisphere, we can hardly suppose that anything but either small hail or sleet is referred to, else the deck would have been cleared of its crew. The hail at Kerguelen on 24 days out of 70 fell in May and June, the beginning of winter or end of autumn. For my part I should never think of doubting that small hail may be very common in mid-ocean, both in the northern and southern temperate zone. I have myself experienced dense hailstorms in the extreme north of Scotland in September, but have not mentioned this in my book.

Further on, Mr. Harries adds to his previous misquotation by attributing to me the theory that hail at sea "is almost unknown," where "almost unknown" should be "uncommon," and "at sea" should be "in mid-ocean." His contention, however, is perfectly clear, and no doubt at variance with the belief expressed in my book, for he says that "great hailstorms are often met with on the open ocean." He then gives a number of examples of great hailstorms

during a period from 1857 to 1891. Twelve of the twenty-two mentioned were great hailstorms within my meaning of the term. But were these twelve "in mid-ocean"? No. 1 (Capt. Jeffery) certainly was in mid-Atlantic. The only indication of the size of the hailstones is the word "immense." No. 2 (Capt. Peebles) occurred apparently about 300 or 400 miles from the African continent, which I should hardly describe as mid-ocean. I pass by the Shun Lee observation, for though it was in mid-Atlantic, the hailstones were only as big as large peas. No. 3 (Capt. Gray) was very near Cape Horn, and No. 4 (Capt. Gray) apparently within about 200 miles of land. No. 5, in 42° S. 60° W., was about the same distance from land. No. 6 (Capt. McRitchie) was apparently about 200 miles from land. No. 64 (Capt. MeRitchie) was a good instance, say 1,000 miles from land. No. 7 (Capt. Gales) was close to Cape Horn, and the same remark applies to the next observation made by his brother near the same position, an interesting note of "large snowballs" in October. No. 8 (Capt. Kerr) was apparently 100 or 200 miles from the Cape of Good Hope, a fall of pieces of ice of great size, about 2 inches square, accompanying a waterspout and a terrible flash of lightning. No. 9 (Capt. Wight) was in a similar position. No. 10 (Capt. Wilson) was in mid-ocean, but the splinters of ice were only half-an-inch in length. No. 11, in the Bay of Biscay, was apparently about 150 miles from the coast of Brittany. The distances from land above given are merely from rough measurements on a chart, but I hope not very far wrong. The only other hailstorms of a severe character, as regards the size of hailstones, mentioned in the remainder of Mr. Harries' paper, are one observed by Capt. W. C. Smith, close to the coast of Natal, and one by Capt. Carruthers, about 400 miles from the South American coast. In this case the hail is described as of an “extraordinary size," but the largest seems to have measured no more than "half-aninch square."

Thus we have finally a record in this paper of 14 hailstorms at sea, which by the test I have mentioned might be described as great. Of these, only four seem to have been more than about 300 miles from land, and only three more than about 400 miles from land. These three are Capt. Jeffery's of March 14th, 1883, in 41° N. 43° W.; Capt. Wilson's (pieces of ice like splinters in. in length), in 41° S. 49° E.; and Capt. McRitchie's ("hailstones as large as marbles"), in 38° S. 2° E. Thus no record remains of hailstones in mid-ocean, or more than 500 miles from a continent, in which the hailstones were more than in. long. And I have seen no account of great hailstones of such a size on any of the small non-mountainous islands lying in the vast central areas of the ocean. On the other hand, in the 61 instances I have given of storms on land, the average size of the hailstones would be about 1 in. in diameter; many were over 2, and some over 3 ins.

The influence of a continent is certainly considerable within 500 miles distance on the ocean: firstly, by reason of the masses of heated or cooled air which may be transported so far in a single day; and secondly, perhaps principally, in relation to hail, by reason of their deflecting great ocean-currents so as to bring warm and cold waters alongside each other. Southernmost Africa has the effect of bringing the equatorial and polar currents into proximity within a few hundred miles south of the land, and it is not surprising that the resulting differences of neighbouring air masses should give rise to storms. Similarly, the dense fogs off the coast of Newfoundland and a long way out to sea are produced by the deflection of an Arctic current so as to flow along the borders of the warm current from the south.

Mr. Harries has proved in this paper that hail has often been encountered at sea, and especially that certain large areas, such as the tract of ocean south and south-east of the Cape of Good Hope, are subject to great hailstorms, and I fully admit that he has shown these to be more prevalent than I had supposed, and acknowledge the value of this interesting contribution.

Capt. M. W. C. HEPWORTH said:-Being one of those who for years have been keeping some of those "gems," as Mr. Russell has satirically termed them, I wish to say that we who have been keeping these Meteorological Logs have been under the impression that we were materially aiding in the good cause. The wind and current charts I would remind Mr. Russell were drafted from logs kept by seamen. Hail is by no means an uncommon occurrence at sea, and even in the tropics I have seen it more than once.

In a

During a thunderstorm in the Red Sea, when the Telegraph Steamer Hibernia was laying the duplicate Bombay Cable in 1876, hail fell. private abstract log of mine observations of weather are recorded daily for noon at sea for many past years.

Rain, hail and snow occur less frequently at sea at about noon than at any other period during the 24 hours, so that although my records do not support Mr. Harries' contention as regards the frequency of hail at sea, the position in which they were recorded may be considered, and as bearing upon the subject. By referring to my abstract I find that in 1,526 days at sea hail was recorded at noon 21 times. My abstract is of voyages made to many parts of the world; but I should mention that 13 passages were to Australia via the Cape of Good Hope, and that 12 of the return passages were made via the Suez Canal, and one via Cape Horn. Other voyages were to India, China, Japan, the Straits Settlements, America, and other parts.

Out of 21 h's that I find recorded at noon, 14 are in the South Indian Ocean between Cape Point and 46° S., three in the South Pacific Ocean, between New Zealand and 57° S.-on the only passage home made that way,-and four in the North Atlantic between Ushant and 40° N. The 17 cases of hail at noon recorded in the Southern Oceans occurred either in the trough, or immediately in rear of the trough of systems of low pressure.

Hail-squalls are common enough on the North Atlantic on the " Ash Tracks" -if I may use a sailor's expression-between England and America. I can vouch for that.

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Mr. H. HARRIES, in reply, said that in quoting from page 154 of On Hail, he had inadvertently taken almost unknown" from one line instead of "uncommon " in the next. The correction, however, introduces no difficulty, for it is now shown that hail is one of the most common of the phenomena recorded in many parts of the open ocean. With regard to Mr. Russell's view that we should take the expression "mid-ocean" in its narrowest sense, it is sufficient to say that ships usually follow certain well-known tracks, and it is only by chance that the centre of any particular ocean is visited: see page 8 of the Report of the Meteorological Council for the year ending March 31st, 1889, where it is stated that "the anticyclonic regions of the great oceans, terised by calms and light winds, are practically avoided by navigators." Then as to the suggestion that great hailstorms should be considered as storms in which the hailstones are very large, he (Mr. Harries) doubted very much whether anyone would support that view. Many English and Continental hailstorms are very severe and very destructive, and yet the stones are of the most ordinary size. The violent storm which burst over Vienna and other parts of Austria a year ago does not appear to have been remarkable for the size of the stones which fell, but it certainly was a very great hailstorm for all that, the gauges registering from 1 in. to 13 in. of water in little more than half-an-hour. The 2 ins. of hail in a few minutes noted by Capt. Gray, and the 3 ins. in 20 minutes by Capt. Holdich, nearly 1,200 miles from the Brazilian and New Zealand coasts respectively, would have been considered perfect avalanches had they occurred anywhere on land. There is no necessity to enter into details as to ships and dates, but the logs show that tremendous falls of hail, large hail noted in many cases, occur in the North Atlantic between 25° and 40° W., in the South Atlantic between 10° and 30° W., in the Indian Ocean between 50° an 100° E., in the South Pacific between 90° and 160° W., and in the North Pacific about the longitude of 180°, in positions which are from 1,000 to 2,000 miles from the nearest Continental land. Reference is made in the paper to a ship recording hail 96 times in crossing the Indian Ocean. The log shows the heaviest fall, the entry being underlined three times, to have been during violent squalls in 43° S. 52° E., or about 1,300 miles from the African coast. What would appear, from the similarity of the records, to have been a hailstorm of immense area was experienced by two vessels during a heavy Westerly gale in mid-ocean in July 1877. The ship Taranaki had excessively violent squalls of hail and rain at 4 p.m. on the 1st in 41° S. 561° E., and out of 21 weather entries down to midnight of the 4th, in 40° S. 77° E., a run of 950 miles, hail was registered 14 times. The ship Pomona ran into the heavy hail squalls at 4 a.m. on the 2nd, in 464° S. 71° E., and out of 24 weather entries down to midnight of the 5th, in 47° S. 961° E., a run of 1000 miles, hail

was registered 15 times. The heaviest part of this hailstorm was at about 2,000 miles from the African and Australian coasts respectively. It will be seen that the points at which the vessels first encountered the hail were 700 miles apart, and the points at which the hail ceased 900 miles apart. It might be of interest to note that while on land the tendency is for hailstorms to occur in the afternoon or evening, the evidence in the logs shows that at sea, where the daily range of temperature is comparatively very small, they seem to be fairly distributed over the 24 hours, often with and often without thunder and lightning. We sometimes read of rain from a cloudless sky; but in the course of this inquiry he (Mr. Harries) had only noticed one instance of hail under similar conditions. In September 1883, in 51° S. 63° W., the barque Caldbeck had a succession of heavy hail squalls for about eight hours, the cloud-form being "cum," amount 2, weather "bh," three entries of each, the observer remarking that the " cum was on the horizon, the sky aloft being clear. Capt. Hepworth has mentioned a fall of hail in the Red Sea, but the log of the ss. Hibernia for November 16th, 1876, while it describes a severe thunderstorm with vivid forked lightning and very heavy rain between 9.30 and 10.30 a.m. in 21° N. 38° E., does not make any mention of hail. There was, however, a sharp drop in the shade temperature— 8 a.m. 88°.5; noon, 83°.2; 4 p.m. 86°.5.

Capt. D. WILSON-BARKER wrote that he had not been struck by any ap parent difference between the amount or frequency of hail at sea and on land. He sent the following extract from a letter he had received from Capt. D. Morton, of the Telegraph Ship Dacia, June 14th, 1895:-"On February 5th last, while repairing the Spanish National Cable, we had to seek shelter in the Port of Mazighan,' in lat. 33°15'6" N. long. 8°26'6" W. On the morning of the 6th, about 10.30 a.m., we experienced a heavy fall of hail, which lasted for about 10 minutes, the hailstones being the largest I have ever seen, being about the size of marbles. The barometer on board at this time stood at 29.515 ins., dry-bulb 57°.5, wet-bulb 57°, wind fresh from West. The fact that such a thing was unknown in this port at any former time may make it interesting."

Admiral J. P. MACLEAR, who was unable to remain for the discussion, wrote that he had examined the Challenger observations during her 3 years' cruise, and found; six entries of hail, viz. January 27th, 1873, 60 miles west of Gibraltar: 3 p.m., hail squall from West-north-west; May 15th, 1873, at Halifax : "h" recorded one hour; January 5th, 1874, lat. 48° S., long. 62° E.: 10 p.m., heavy hail squall, during which wind shifted to South-south-east; January 22nd, 1874, at Kerguelen island: 1.30 a.m., a sharp hail shower; January 25th, 1876, at Port Stanley, Falklands: "h" recorded one hour; February 10th, 1876, lat. 44° S., long. 56° W.: 0.30 a.m., a hail squall, 7.30 p.m., heavy squall with hail.

Coast of Morocco.

PROCEEDINGS AT THE MEETINGS
OF THE SOCIETY.

May 15th, 1895.

Ordinary Meeting.

RICHARD INWARDS, F.R.A.S., President, in the Chair.

Lt. Col. HARLOVEN MORLEY SAUNDERS, Oakfield, The Park, Cheltenham, was balloted for and duly elected a Fellow of the Society.

The following communications were read :—

"THE NOVEMBER FLOODS OF 1894 IN THE THAMES VALLEY." By G. J. SYMONS, F.R.S., and G. CHATTERTON, M.A., M.Inst.C.E. (p. 189.)

"BAROMETRICAL CHANGES PRECEDING AND ACCOMPANYING THE HEAVY RAINFALL OF NOVEMBER, 1894." By F. J. BRODIE, F.R.Met.Soc. (p. 209.) "A NATURAL THERMOMETER." By Rev. FENWICK W. Srow, M.A., F.R.Met.Soc. (p. 214.)

June 19th, 1895.

Ordinary Meeting.

RICHARD INWARDS, F.R.A.S., President, in the Chair.

STRATTON COLLINGS KNOTT, H.B.M. Vice-Consul, Mojanga, Madagascar; and ROLAND PILLINGS, F.R.A.S., Secretary, Meteorological Commission, Cape Town, were balloted for and duly elected Fellows of the Society.

The following communications were read :-
:-

"HOURLY VARIATION OF SUNSHINE AT SEVEN STATIONS IN THE BRITISH ISLES." BY RICHARD H. CURTIS, F.R.Met.Soc. (p. 216.)

"THE FREQUENCY, SIZE, AND DISTRIBUTION OF HAIL AT SEA." BY HENRY HARRIES, F.R.Met.Soc. (p. 230.)